Tuesday, April 3, 2012

Minnesota: St. Joan's Provides Platform for Dissent Against Archbsihop Nienstedt

Edit: The Land of 10,000 heresies strikes again! Take note that the actively Gomorrist church of St. Joan of Arc's is giving a forum for those attacking the Archbishop's program to support the marriage amendment. Recently, the Archbishop himself went on record saying that he will tolerate no dissension on this matter, but then, some people have to test the waters.

Another interesting question might also be: who are the speakers? Surely they're not from CPCSM! Even better!
Adult Learning Board Sponsoring Forum on the Marriage Amendment Update, from a reader:
This will be a “forum” and not a “debate”. The two sides - pro and con - will be represented by two constitutional law experts - Dale Carpenter, from the University of Minnesota Law School, and Teresa Collett, from the University of St. Thomas Law School. The program will be moderated by Lynda McDonnell, a faculty member at the University of St. Thomas.
Is either side or the moderator really Catholic? The only Catholic thing about Lynda McDonnell seems to be the Irish name and the fact that she teaches at a school that has "Catholic" on its billboard. A brief perusal of the internet gives cause for concern. Dale Carpenter is a homosexualactivist and contributes regularly to homosexual publications, including a book on the abrogation in the supreme court of Texas' sodomy law.
By the end of his book, Carpenter celebrates the 6-3 ruling in favor of Lawrence and Garner. The court, in essence, declared sodomy laws unconstitutional because they impinged on personal relationships.

The real surprise comes when we find out that he's being given a platform at an allegedly Catholic men's forum, AOTM [Argument of the Month Club]

Saint Joan's contends that at the end of the evening, parishioners should be able to make an informed decision about something which the Archbishop has already spoken in favor of by publishing a CD and making a number of public statements. But considering the curricula vita of both speakers, it seems that they are merely tailored to suit the decades-long hostility of St. Joan's pastors and parishioners on Catholic moral teaching.

It's a scandal that either of these speakers should be given a platform to confuse the laity further about an issue the Archbishop has more than amply held forth upon.

It even cost one parish employee, Lucinda Naylor, her job. How she ever got hired in the first place is quite a mystery. But will the Archbishop take this opportunity to clean house and do more than make a few symbolic dismissals?

[From St. Joan of Arc Bulletin] On Sunday, April 15, at 2 p.m. in the St. Joan of Arc Gym the SJA Adult Learning Board is sponsoring a forum on the constitutional questions around the proposed marriage amendment to the Minnesota constitution.

The format will be twenty-five (25) minute presentations by each side – [Oh my, it's only fair] for and against the amendment - and then written questions from the audience answered by the presenters. The purpose of the forum is to provide information on the constitutional law considerations surrounding the amendment and encourage each of us to form our conscience before we vote.

We hope you will attend the forum and support this first effort by our new Adult Learning Board.
This is St. Joan's program for Holy Week:
You just know that St. Joan's will have demonic puppets on hand and a "farmer's Liturgy"! Liturgical abuses will likely be in abundance!

Evil Puppetmaster Controls St. Joan's Liturgies

H/t: Stella Borealis

Contact: Fr. Jim DeBruycker 4537 3rd Ave. So. Minneapolis, MN 55419 Phone: 612.823.8205 Fax: 612.825.7028
Contact: Archdiocese 226 Summit Avenue Saint Paul, MN 55102 (651) 291-4400


Joseph-Maria said...

"The real surprise comes when we find out that he's being given a platform at an allegedly Catholic men's forum, AOTM [Argument of the Month Club]"

I see his bio on the AOTM site, but going back to 2007, do not see when he has spoken. Was he pulled from the 5/8/12 event?

Tancred said...

It wasn't surprising that he was there. They may have pulled him.

L40 said...

What's with being outraged (no pun intended) that the guy participated at an aotm debate? Its a debate. And in a debate, you need a pro and a con...and I bet while finding the pro is relatively easy for the aotm guys, I can't image finding the con is an easy job at all. And when they do get the con, that doesn't mean they will show (as with the freemason). So given the guy here has such an awful position, doesn't the platform given (in this case at aotm) just go to show in contrast what his idology is really about vs catholicism & truth?

Tancred said...

Why would you ascribe qualities like "outrage" to what was written? Why give a platform to this man at all?

I think your situation is analogous to St. Joan of Arc's, especially in the present atmosphere where the Archbishop is facing dissidents who are trying to undermine his defense of marriage.

Inviting the man to speak on a platform for 400 plus men gives him a legitimacy he doesn't deserve. Additionally, I'm fairly convinced that he could probably make any opponent you could put up against him like a clown.

L40 said...

Ok...let me restate: ''whats with the 'suprise' that the guy participates in an aotm debate?''.

...again, give the man a platform to show just how absurd his position is vs traditional catholic teaching...which is one reason the ''allegedly catholic'' aotm (as it was referenced in the story) is so popular...well, if giving the man a platform at aotm gives legitimacy he doesn't deserve, then you would have to say that about all cons they have (the baptist preacher on sola scriptura, the gay prof from collegeville, the mn athiest guy as a few examples of anti catholic thought).

As far as the 'clown' jab...there is a cliche line from a jack nickleson movie about truth that comes to mind....i wouldn't be too worried about that/him at aotm.

You have a good point about the intents of the settings: sja vs aotm...yes, there is a big difference.

Tancred said...

I don't think AOTM is as different from St. Joan of Arc as you think. Dale Carpenter is a smart guy. I can't say the same for the Collegeville heretic or the atheist. Why would someone like that appear in a venue like yours unless he knew he could win good will and support from it?

It's a world away from debating protestants and other heretics, which is something which has a long-standing tradition going back to the middle ages, but giving someone who's defending a sin that cries out for vengeance a platform to speak gives him a credibility he doesn't deserve.

It's not hard for a devoted Catholic to understand that sodomy is a moral evil, is it? It's not hard either for a committed Catholic to get behind the Archbishop. There's nothing to debate. So you're inviting a pervert to present his case in a respectable venue he doesn't deserve, and it's not at all necessarily the case that your speaker is going to win the debate. It's not a jab, it's the truth.

As far as the popularity of AOTM, I think it has a lot more to do with the stifling atmosphere of the culture and a thirst for authenticity and Catholicism than it does with the proposed structure of the group or the efforts of its organizers.

In a hurricane, even turkies can fly.

Tancred said...

To use a football metaphor: it's a lot like throwing a short pass into double coverage when you're ahead three points in the fourth quarter with thirty seconds to go.

Tancred said...

In any case, all of that rings hollow when you won't invite an SSPX priest or a Feeneyite to speak, don't it?