Scandal: 70 worshipers and part of the church choir left Mass because of the sermon
Münster (kath.net) He had not been able to reach the “screaming mob” in the sermon with his voice and therefore could not explain his position and the biblically important meaning of forgiveness. In retrospect, the 79-year-old retiree Ulrich Zurkuhlen complained, as "Church and Life" reported. Zurkuhlen was critical, according to "Church and Life" that even bishops of priest-perpetrators would be spoken of as "criminals", even though they were also good pastors. The chaplain continued to explain to the editors that nobody was "only profoundly evil", but that often "goodness and guilt” are bound together in the same person. It is "gradually come to a time that the Church hierarchy after a long time can sometimes say a word of forgiveness.”
In the sermon in the Münster Holy-Spirit church, Zurkuhlen had spoken according to representation of worshipers in the sermon of two women, whose conversations were constantly circling around themselves and then have commented pejoratively on their deceased husbands. As a result, the priest pointed out the possibility of forgiveness. He then compared this to priests who had sexually abused minors, and they too should be forgiven. The chaplain affirmed this presentation to "Church and Life". At this point some parishioners were said to have interrupted the sermon and started a discussion with Zurkuhlen. Much of the community even gathered outside in the church square. Specifically, 70 worshipers and part of the church choir had left the Mass.
The responsible senior pastor in the parish association, Stefan Rau, explained to "Church and Life" that this analogy of blasphemous women and the victim-perpetrator relationship is "more than thoughtless". Victims have no obligation to forgive, such an impression should not be allowed to stand that way. He has invited those interested in a few days to a public conversation about the sermon. Rau considered it particularly bad that in this service those affected by sexual abuse were present.
A conversation has already been held with the chaplain, and further talks will follow, according to Rau. Disciplinary measures would not be taken against Zurkuhlen at first.
Having read this, is anyone any the wiser?
I’m just a little mystified that essential Christian teaching is thrown out to satisfy some hysterical points of view.
Clerical abusers should be forgiven only if they're sincerely sorrowful for their crimes, make reparations, and let the civil authorities do what they're supposed to do.
Acqua, tell it to the Holy Martyrs who forgave their killers while they were being killed.
That’s why I think this priest who’s got all the Me2 people angry has the right idea.
Many are called but few are chosen.
Few are called but many are chosen by the wrong people for the wrong reasons.
Many victims abused by pervert priests have become pervert homosexuals themselves. Other have attempted, even succeeded suicides, while other have lost the Faith together with their trust in the Church;
Sexual abuses of children are extremely serious crimes and sacrilegious sins. Forgiveness may hardly be granted to these pastors by the flock their were entrusted to.
Only public acts of repentance and penance together with a retirement in a remote monastery for a life of prayer would draw forgiveness.
This comment is so retarded it removed itself.
Up until Pius XI's 1922 'Crimen Sollicitationis', clerics charged with the crime of child abuse and convicted in an ecclesiastical court, were automatically stripped of their clerical state and handed over to the civil authorities. The tried and convicted cleric could confess, repent, regret as much as he liked and absolved as many times still had to face the civil side of justice.
The Martyrs looked towards eternity.
Many of those seeking forgiveness and dialogue seek only further fleshly pleasures and the ambiguity of the benefit of the doubt.
Turning one's cheek as one's final act in life is commendable.
Turning one's cheek as the souls and bodies of your loved ones are devoured is nothing but craven cowardice.
The sword was given to the public authorities as part of God's will.
Even the Devil can quote scripture to his own ends.
Is there anything I am missing...?
"was critical, according to "Church and Life" that even bishops of priest-perpetrators would be spoken of as "criminals"
Why be critical? It's the truth. We even have a Pope who is a "criminal" who should be forced out for protecting homos and priest predators like McCarrick and dozens of others both inside the Vatican and out.
Start at the top. Bring the head down, and then work to rid the Church of the rest of the rot.
Believe it or not, there are actually many faithful Catholics working hard to bring Francis down.
But they have a way to go. Especially in educating the poor pilgrims who still flock (in fewer numbers however), to see Francis because they see him still as "the Pope", and don't see the rest.
Where’s the turn the cheek unless your children are raped, clause?
You’re just making an exception for a bedrock principle of Catholic caritas because you’re emotionally conditioned by media hype.
Thanks for the link. I was unaware of the directive.
Pope John XXIII was laying the ground work to protect all of those who will follow in his footsteps, his religious and moral heirs.
I read this on another site. From General Dwight D. Eisenhower.
“When I found the first camp like that I think I never was so angry in my life. The bestiality displayed there was not merely piled up bodies of people that had starved to death, but to follow out the road and see where they tried to evacuate them so they could still work, you could see where they sprawled on the road. You could go to their burial pits and see horrors that really I wouldn’t even want to begin to describe. I think people ought to know about such things. It explains something of my attitude toward the German war criminal. I believe he must be punished, and I will hold out for that forever.”
– Press conference, 6/18/45 [DDE’s Pre-Presidential Papers, Principal File, Box 156, Press Statements and Releases, 1944-46
A clear example of Justice being sought. No simple "forgiveness" and move along. Those who's forgiveness could have been sought, the victims, were dead. The living are responsible for the Justice to the dead and righteous punishment to the guilty.
I don’t know of anyone who thinks that practicing spiritual works of mercy such as “forgiveness” entails an evil doer foregoing temporal, spiritual and civil punishments.
Gabriel Garcia Moreño forgave the Freemasons who turned his children into orphans and his wife a widow.
Ironically, a lot of Masons are sexual predators, but that’s just one of their passtimes....
He didn’t require them to abjure Freemasonry and make
restitution to those they’d harmed, although this forgiveness, as freely as it was given, called upon his assailants to amend their lives and repair the harm they’d caused.
Last comment, sorry, I do find the topic interesting.
In reference to the article you posted behind the discussion on forgiveness, don’t forget the *background* of the crimes we are dealing with (in Germany as everywhere else). These violations of Priestly authority in sexual abuse of children in their spiritual care are decades in the make and span the globe and involve countless ruined kids, perhaps going to hell. There is a history here beyond the individual cases mentioned or referenced. I think there is an element in which the Laity is fed up with empty multi-decade promises and coverups when children, their children, are being used and wrecked in the spiritual safe place of the Holy Temple Of God and all they ever talk about is Mercy ... *Never Justice*.
It’s time to end this. Especially in these days when the Church is promoting this message: “Mercy = Permit”. We may all personally know someone abused. Pretty much fed up. It needs to stop. Fix it. Then we can talk forgiveness.
Maybe Moreño came back from the dead and took their lives!
Forgiveness is not identical to indulgence. To remit one's hatred of the offender is forgiveness, to remit the punishment due to their offense is indulgence. The gospel requires that we forgive and not to hate those who trespass against us, but it does not always require us to indulge them and forgo all punishment. Today, for example, parents are often too indulgent with their children, because they do not distinguish forgiveness and indulgence and mistakenly believe that forgiving their children means forgoing any and all punishment which may help to correct them.
Amen, that’s exactly it.
Not a clue
An ordained cleric who sexually assaults a child should be executed. Prayer for their salvation would also be a good idea
Works for me, as long as due process is followed and there’s a high bar for prosecution.
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