Tuesday, September 23, 2014

Talks Between Rome and the SSPX Resume

Bishop Fellay in Rome
(Rome) In the late morning of the day the meeting between  the Prefect of the Congregation for Doctrine and the Faith,  Cardinal Gerhard Müller and the Superior General of the SSPX, Bishop Fellay, was held in Rome. For the first time Cardinal Müller and Bishop Fellay had personally met since the former Bishop of Regensburg had been appointed early summer 2012 to be Prefect of the CDF. 
Since the election of Pope Francis there have been no lack of voices that take a hard line in Rome  and say  they  want the bishops and priests of the SSPX  to be excommunicated. Pope Francis did not follow this "advice". The talks between the SSPX and Rome were resumed today instead.
The statement published by the Vatican press office did not appear  in different languages, but in German. The following translation leans closely as possible to the relevant Italian text.
"On the morning of Tuesday 23 September from 11 am to 1 pm, a cordial meeting took place at the premises of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, between Cardinal Gerhard Ludwig Muller, prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and Bishop Bernard Fellay, superior general of the Society of St. Pius X. The meeting was also attended by Archbishops Luis Francisco Ladaria Ferrer, S.I., secretary of the same Congregation, Joseph Augustine Di Noia, O.P., adjunct secretary and Guido Pozzo, secretary of the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei, along with two assistants from the Society of St. Pius X, Rev. Niklaus Pfluger and Rev. Alain-Marc Nély.
During the meeting, various problems of a doctrinal and canonical nature were examined, and it was decided to proceed gradually and over a reasonable period of time in order to overcome difficulties and with a view to the envisioned full reconciliation.
Two aspects of the Declaration catches your eye. First, the emphasis that the encounter in a "warm climate" was held. A formulation that sounds very strong in German translation, in the flowery Italian language however, still would allow some increase of opportunities, but overall indicated a positive indication. Secondly, the content of the last sentence is most important, which shows that the direct communication between Rome and Econe are open again. That did not seem self-evident recently. 
The official statement of the General House of the SSPX in Menzingen largely corresponds to the wording of the Vatican. In addition, next to the "doctrinal and canonical problems" it said that the "current situation of the Church" was addressed. The explanation of the SSPX is reluctant to state a desired objective and speaks of "continuing to clarify the remaining controversial points."

A Brief Review

In spring 2012, the impression was generally accepted in the months previous on the part of the SSPX,  the impression that Rome accepted the arguments put forward in requests for changes to the "Doctrinal Preamble", whose adoption should form the basis for the canonical recognition. Then in May the General Assembly of the Congregation came together and annulled the results obtained. On June 13, 2012, Bishop Fellay thought to travel to Rome and return with the canonical recognition of the SSPX. Instead, it was Cardinal William Levada,  then Prefect of the CDF who didn't present the agreed text of the Doctrinal Preamble, but  the original version again, before the talks began. An unacceptable situation, which ended with an inconclusive departure of the Superior General of the SSPX. Because the turnaround came so unexpectedly, Bishop Fellay asked a few days later, expressly and in writing with Benedict XVI. according to whether it really is also the desire of the Pope. As this was confirmed on June 30, there was a hiatus. 
Some circles in Rome wanted to pass the buck to  the SSPX  for the failure of the talks and wanted from Bishop Fellay a written negative answer to the "preamble". When the SSPX, who felt betrayed in their view, was not to fall into this trap,  yet in the meantime there came into office, and thus not concerned with the new faith discussions, Müller, Prefect of the CDF who issued the Society  an ultimatum early in early 2013.
In one of his last decisions  Pope Benedict XVI. lifted the ultimatum, however, shortly before his resignation. The whole question therefore remained unanswered. The unification efforts of 2005, initiated by the German Pope, which should have resulted in a canonical recognition of the Society were placed on ice.
With the election of Pope Francis, the conditions seemed even less certain than ever of being able for the failed talks to productively resume. After one and a half years of official hiatus, the talks were resumed in a surprisingly benevolent climate today.
It is clear that there were voices in the Vatican, after the successful prevention of an agreement by the Plenary Assembly of the Congregation, the resignation of Benedict XVI. and the election of Pope Francis, to take the opportunity to draw a sharp line and say to adopt a Decree of Excommunication for the bishops and all the priests of the SSPX. An option that has been suggested to Pope Francis that the Argentine Pope, despite his barely manageable aversion to tradition and the traditional rite, did not own.
Text: Giuseppe Nardi
image: Vatican Insider
Trans: Tancred vekron99@hotmail.com
Link to Katholisches...


Catholic Mission said...

September 24, 2014
The 'magisterium' has not been aware ( or not made it known if aware) that it is the premise which decides if Vatican Council II is traditional or a break with Tradition

September 23, 2014
Once again the Vatican threatens SSPX with penalties if they do not accept the Jewish Left version of Vatican Council II ?

Anonymous said...

What does it mean? Absolutely nothing, at least for us on the ground. It's like those discussions with the Orthodox. So much "Ooooh, they're talking to each other! WE ARE ON THE VERGE OF UNIFYING THE CHURCHES."

But no. Maybe it means something to the people directly involved, but unless something really, actually happens, it doesn't mean anything. You can say "Well, it means that meanings can be agreed upon, if they mean anything."

Tancred said...

It means the talks are ongoing.

Anonymous said...

Right in time for the Synod where every kind of sexual sinner will be declared entitled to "communion", the SSPX has been silenced! Not that it ever said anything or did anything except 'excommunicate' those who spoke up against the apostates in the Vatican!!! What a joke - talk about Pharisees cleaning the outside of the cup. No wonder the Muslims get stronger and stronger.

susan said...

...off your meds again?

Tancred said...

Everybody thinks he knows what's going on.

Anonymous said...

Maybe you should listen to fairy bubble cup who's just been appointed to Rahm Emanuel & Barak Obama gangsta land:

Bp. Cupich chastises “those church leaders who threatened to shutter social services rather than comply with the mandate.” ... more

....As soon as Cupich became bishop, the Vagina Monologues came to Gonzaga ... more

....'We cannot politicize the communion rail' ... more

...."You bishops in smaller dioceses should complain more about inequality in the world." ... more

...."As long as parishioners are in church, willing to hear the word of God and open to conversion that's sufficient for me." ... more


Anonymous said...

The link is: http://www.pewsitter.com/page_1.html

Think the SSPX will say one lil thing? I don't. They want to be 'in communion' w/bubble cup and frannie. In fact, they already are. Frannie is their fuhrer and anyone who says otherwise is excommunicated. I.e. it's more dangerous NOT to follow Frannie (and for instance follow Bp Wmsn) than to follow Frannie and bubble cup.

LeonG said...

Prepare for another haemorrhage of priests from he Society. Such "talks", the longer they are protracted, benefit only the liberal modernists who have no intention of doing anything other than dividing The Confraternity even more by stealth.

Tancred said...

Meh. I don't really care what hysterical people say.

Too many evil people want this not to happen.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say.

They're still talking, but.... Is it going to go on forever, or what?

Anonymous said...

Traditionalism attracts hysterical people, because they think it's Radical. Well, yes, traditionalists are radical, but not hysterical. It's radical, but in the true sense of the word, radix, which means roots; but this is not the same as extremism that characterizes the views of certain bipolar/schizophrenic peoples who aren't just happy with the world.

It wasn't a coincidence that traditionalists went crazy when Pope Francis became Pope, but it's not traditionalism itself that is hysterical, rather the traditions of the Church lay abandoned for the most part and those trying to raise it up are being suffocated by all sorts of people who preferred tradition to be abandoned.

Hysterical people aren't helping.

Tancred said...

Who can say? I'm not privy to their talks.

STEPHEN - Roodepoort said...

The church of Vatican II has fallen on its sword, it is hardly breathing now.

Anonymous said...

Yes, is does mean that the Trads are rooted!

Anonymous said...

Let face it The bishop of rome is head of a new church and people like the sspx and others are CATHOLIC. It is like compairing good fruits with rotten ones.

Anonymous said...

The trouble is they will never admit to it. untill the vac ii nit wits are all dead and forgotten. The only thing is I will not be a round to see the restoration of Holy Mother church.

Anonymous said...

Why are the SSPX wanting so desperately to join 'a new church' with its Gaudium et Spes, Lumen Gentium concilarism, Religious Freedom, Nostra Aetate, all of Sacrosanctum Concilium, the Novus Ordo to say nothing of social justice?

Tancred said...

Because the Pope is the visible head of the Catholic Church, regardless of what a few people say he is.

Anonymous said...


Think about it:

Popes and Councils can either change or can't change anything

If Popes and Councils can change something, then it's possible to change something back; remember, Vatican 2 was most likely unimaginable to, say, people from the 10th century. But if Vatican 2 did change things, why can't some future pope or council change things back?


If popes and councils can't change anything, then Vatican 2 did not change anything because they are unable to for one reason or another.

Now, I believe that things do change, but not necessarily because of either Councils or Popes, because the Church, in general, transmits, not invents, nor deforms, and this is guaranteed by the Holy Spirit; they only clarify things. BUT! There are popes and there are clergy who think that things can be changed, even if it's a matter of perspective, so... We need SSPX and other like-minded people as a balance and check to those "imaginative" clergy.

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