Tuesday, September 16, 2014

Pope Francis: "No Way For Christians Without the Holy, Hierarchical, Mother Church"

Francis Pearl of the day: Mary and the Church: two women - two mothers. As there would have been no Jesus Christ without Mary, there is no way for Christians without the Church. Through suffering, obedience is learned: the way of Christ.
By Armin Schwibach

Rome (kath.net/as) Without the Church, which is our mother, we can not go on. This was confirmed by Pope Francis in his sermon for the feast of the Dolors of Mary at Holy Mass in the chapel of the Vatican guest house "Domus Sanctae Marthae."

After the liturgy of the Exultation of the Cross, we are show us in the present day, a humble and gentle mother. In the Letter to the Hebrews (Heb 5:7 to 9), the apostle Paul emphasizes three powerful words: "Jesus taught, he obeyed and he suffered" ("Though he was a Son, he learned obedience through suffering"; V. 6). The Pope explains this is the contrary of what happened with the progenitor, Adam. He did not want to learn the Commandments of the Lord, nor did he want to suffer or obey. Though he was God, Jesus offered Himself on the other hand, He humbled Himself by becoming the servant: "This is the glory of the cross of Jesus".

"Jesus came into the world," said Francis, "to learn to be human, to be human, to go with the people. He came into the world, to obey, and he obeyed. But he has learned this obedience through suffering. Adam has left from paradise with a promise, the promise that has been going on over the many centuries. Today, with this obedience, this self-destruction, with this self-humiliation of Jesus, that promise is to hope. And the people of God go ahead with this certain hope. The Mother, 'the New Eve,' as Paul called her, would share this way with her Son: she learned, suffered and obeyed. And she became a mother."

The Gospel (Jn 19:25 - 27) shows us Mary at the foot of the Cross. Jesus says to John: "Behold your mother" (verse 27). Thus Mary would be "anointed as the mother:"

"And this is our hope. We are not orphans, we have mothers: Mother Mary. But the Church is the mother, and the Church is anointed as mother and she strikes out on the same way as Mary and Jesus, the way of obedience, the way of suffering, and if it continues that attitude to keep learning the way of the Lord. These two women - Mary and the Church - bring forward in hope, which is Christ, they give us Christ, they bear witness to Christ in us. Without Mary, there would have been no Jesus Christ. . "Without the Church, we can not precede."

Two women and two mothers," Francis continued, "and next to them our soul, which - as the monk Isaac, Abbot of Stella († 1178), has said - is feminine and Mary resembles the Church":

"If we now look at this woman at the cross, who was the successor of her son in suffering, was quite firm to learn obedience, so we look to you, to the Church, and we look to our Mother. And we also look at our little soul that will never get lost, even if it continues to remain a 'woman', who has close ties to these two great women who accompany us in life: Mary and the Church. And as our first parents have gone out of paradise with a promise, so can we go ahead with a hope: the hope, our Mother Mary gives to us, who remains firmly at the cross, and our sacred hierarchical Mother Church. "
 Link to kath.net...
Trans: Tancred vekron99@hotmail.com


susan said...

Alright, is it just me, but this doesn't sound so bad....dare I say even Catholic?

well, ok...except for this little bizzarity:

"And we also look at our little soul that will never get lost, even if it continues to remain a 'woman',"


Martina Katholik said...

The Church is no woman but the Mystical Body of Christ.


Tancred said...

He's citing Blessed Isaac of Stella. In Latin and Greek, the soul is feminine.

Tancred said...

You've heard of Holy Mother, the Church, right? Surely none of this is controversial.

susan said...

I get that the soul is feminine (also the Church...all good and well), but I thought the quote of St. Isaac ended with the cited sentence in the paragraph above, with the last paragraph being entirely vintage Bargoglio, no? eh?....the wording of which is, well, a little unartful...the soul may indeed be feminine, but it ain't a woman.

but like I said, nothing much to see in this quote...pretty much Catholic to my humble ears. halleluiah.

Tancred said...

It's metaphorical language. The Trinity isn't a sun, for example, but St. John Chrysostom, I believe, uses it to describe the Trinity. The Kingdom of Heaven is like... etc... the Bible is full of these sorts of metaphors to make the Gospel more clear.

FGA said...

The preponderance of Bergoglio’s words run the gamut from merely modernist to abhorrently anti-Catholic; and then, every once and a while he speaks as if he were truly a Catholic. So, most sincerely I ask the question: Is Jorge Bergoglio a modernist, an anti-Catholic tare in the wheat field of the Lord, or is he (quite sadly) just crazy?

I do believe this is an important question as I also believe that the answer has much bearing on how we pray for him and for the Church.

- And please do not suggest that he could not have arrived at this position without all of his wits. Many quite insane persons have been very useful (if unwitting) tools of the devil in the past so it is not out of the realm of possibility here and now.

I am always impressed by, and grateful for the depth of intellect and understanding of the posters to this site and its host so any thoughts on the matter are truly appreciated.

Tancred said...

Sometimes he says things which baffle me, because they are fully orthodox and people need to hear them, other times, not so much. Some of the time, it's wishful thinking and misattributions by the media, but he really does do and say some curious things.

I wish I could answer your questions more thoroughly, but I'm just as at sea as you are.

Hope I'm in the Ark is all.

susan said...

I get metaphor...it's all good; the soul and the Church are both feminine, and a woman (the perfect woman--the Blessed Mother) is the living Icon of the Church, but the neither the Church not the soul is a woman. Words mean things. The Bible never states that the God is a sun (can you imagine the mess that would start?), though aspects of God might be COMPARED to the sun, and I'm sure that St. John Chrysostom uses it in the comparative sense also.

Back to the awkward teaching in the sentence in question (seeing that you apparently want to beat this horse to a painful death), there are 4 major problems with it as I see it:

1) the soul most assuredly CAN be lost; it's called eternal damnation. And even if we ask the Blessed Mother to hold our hand, we can choose to remove it and be lost to hell. There is no guarantee that "our little soul will never get lost"....it's a function of free will to the last bodily breath.

2) The soul is not a woman (as explained above)

3) and what the heck does "our little soul that will never get lost, EVEN IF IT CONTINUES TO REMAIN a 'woman' mean? As though being a woman (assuming the soul could be, which it can't; see point 2) is any particular impediment to salvation (?)

and 4) acceding to the femininity of the soul, and it's "inability to get lost EVEN IF it remains a woman"....(sheese), who the heck is more likely to get lost...a man or a woman? I might put my lipstick on in the rear-view mirror, but at least I'll ask directions (!); what is the voice of SIRI?...female.; what is the typical GPS voice?...female .; and who was the one who led the Israelites for 40 years through a desert, that should have taken no more than 2 weeks to cross?...hmmmm???? MOSES! and you can bet for sure that he never asked Miriam for directions.



Anonymous said...

While we cannot really trust Bergoglio, we have to trust in the Holy Spirit that Pope Francis will not be led to errors. From time to time, good things come from a suspiciously ambiguous pontiff. Such is the mercy of God.

susan said...

God bless you FGA...You asked the $64,000 question. I'm right there beside you scratching my head, though I will say, the accumulating evidence doesn't look good. I've often given the advice to read "The Jesuits" to get a better idea of who Bergoglio is...it will answer a LOT of questions; just be warned...you might be horrified by the answers.

...and I hope I'm in the Ark too.

susan said...

c'mon....that was funny.

Tancred said...

Ar ar!

Anonymous said...

All Francis is doing is setting the table for imposing his authority in order for the Revolution to be carried out. He's a leftist Stalinist just like all liberals.


FGA said...

My thanks to you both for your comments.

If it were not for sites like yours Tancred I would be fully convinced of my own insanity (As for now the jury is still out!)

As for the Ark, I hope likewise; and am currently repenting for my jealousy of your ability to turn a phrase...

" I'm just as at sea as you are. Hope I'm in the Ark is all." Beautiful - fun and filled with hope - thanks!

Susan, thanks for the suggestion. I have known of this book but have never gotten around to giving it a look - at your suggestion I will do so now.

Tancred said...

He's also the Pope, God help us.

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

Definitely setting the stage re the fallout fr The Oct Synod!!

Michael said...

Dear Tancred. It is not that hard to figure out bergoglio. He clearly does not believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

You can easily distinguish between the statements that come directly from bergoglio and those which are written for him but are pronounced by him during official Vatican events.... whenever the statements clearly refer to Christ as the Son of God then those are ones written for him.

Also remember that when he says "Church" he is not referring to the Catholic Church and when he says "god" he is not referring to God. Again in some formal statements he weill use those terms properly, but it is because those statements have been written by someone else for him.

It's actually quite simple to distinguish the two types of statements once you know what to look for. Typically the statements he reads verbatim at formal events are more Catholic than his off-the-cuff style statements like for instance his Santa Marta morning sermons.

Anonymous said...

Yeah it's "No Way For Christians Without the Holy, Hierarchical, Mother Church" when he's trying to force sacrilege and gay filth down our throats, but when the it's homosexual freak shows, or communist liberation, or prayin' to Allah, or getting re-baptized by female clergy it's don't worry about a thing! If you get a letter from the CDF throw it in the trash and keep doin' what you have to do! The church must move beyond petty rules! Don't complain to Rome -- these problems need to be handled on the local level.