Thursday, May 24, 2012

Father Pfluger Sees Novus Ordo Being Abolished in 20 Years

Edit: there were some interesting elements regarding Father Pfluger's April 29th lecture to 'Spes Unica', including the important point that the Holy Father has accepted the preamble as it is written, including the Society's right to dialog about controversial points in the Vatican Council.

It seems to be also that this has been picked up by Cardinal Brandmuller, who delivered some covering fire for the SSPX recently when he said that the two documents are not binding.

"Our Problem is the Bishops"

The first assistant of the Society of St. Pius X confirms:  "We know that the Pope is agreed to the new form of the Dogmatic Preamble."
Father Pfluger's Lecture on unity at
‘Actio Spes Unica’.


(, Hattersheim)  The Bishops deal with the Society of St. Pius X as if they were still excommunicated.

The first assistant of the Society, Father Niklaus Pfluger, said this in a two hour lecture in the 25,700 population city of Hattersheim near Frankfurt am Main.

The host for the event was 'Actio Spes Unica', an organization very closely bound too the Society.

The break is obvious

Father explained himself about the negotiations with the Vatican.

At the end of the Dogmatic discussions it had been clear that there was no theological agreement.

The theologians of the Society had  depicted a break in the Church before and after the Council.

Because the Pope says it's so

The Vatican theologians had want to  demonstrate continuity.

They explained that the Second Vatican Council had ostensibly announced the enduring teaching of the Church.

There were new teachings.

It was established with the fact that the Pope says it's so.

At the same time the Vatican theologians had admitted the ecclesiastical decline, the abuses, errors and scandals of the Conciliar Church.

But they would not clearly admit to Father Pfluger that the Pastoral Council was the cause for this.

No time lost with the doctrine of the faith

Father Pfluger mentioned the September Meeting of the General Council of the Sciety with the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine and the Faith, William Cardinal Levada.

There had been not a word lost about the Dogmatic Discussions.

The Prince of the Church simply handed the text of the Dogmatic Preamble and proposed a Personal Prelature as the future legal form f the Society.

Much is in disarray

The second part of the discussion dealt with the Church crisis -- among other things in Germany.

The Congregation sees, "that much is in disarray."

That was discussed  -- said Father Pfluger -- also in a spontaneous discussion with the Secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine and the Faith, Archbishop Luis Francisco Ladaria Ferrer (68)..

The Archbishop openly said: "Our problem for the last twenty years are the Bishops, the theologians and the Universities."

The Vatican doesn't speak with one voice

Father Pfluger mentioned the document to the Congregation from the middle of March.

In that a positive answer was expected from the Society and in the opposite case threatened with excommunication.

In any case, in the middle of March Bishop Bernard Fellay received a second dispatch: "You must not take that letter seriously."

The Pope wants a solution and is prepared to be gracious.

"We need the Societey"

Father Pfluger cited a Cardinal, who regarding the breakdown in the Council said to Bishop Fellay: "We need you".

For Father, that is one possible explanation why the Pope wants to achieve  the reconciliation, even though practically all of the Bishops are against him.

It is after forty years for the Society a new situation, that a Pope offers a regularization almost without any concessions on the side of the Society.

In the light of Tradition

Father Pfluger mentioned the Dogmatic Preamble which the Society had reworked for the middle of April .

The Pius text is shorter and more precisely formulated than the original edition by the CDF.

The Society had enjoined in the text that the Pastoral Council and the subsequent Magisterium be discussed.

The Pope is in Agreement

Father let some information slip through.

One knows, that the Pope is in agreement with the Society's version of the Preamble.

The fact is only to be returned to the CDF, in order too follow normal channels.

Pope Under Pressure

Father stressed that "very many" in the CDF and inn the Vatican do not want a positive solution for the Society.

There is "pressure" being exercised against the Pope.

As an example, the clergyman described the Old Liberal President of the Pontifical Council for Unity, Cardinal Kurt Koch.

He has already ruined his own Diocese of Basel as Basel:  "They don't come more modern than he, really."

When he became a Roman Cardinal, he started praising the Old Mass.

With '' it's easier

Father Pfluger mentioned his other crises in the Church during his lecture -- for example the time when there were three Popes simultaneously.

There was no internet or television then, in order too find out, who the real Pope was.

In the current crisis it's easier to inform yourself.  "Now we can go on '' and look at what Father Andreas Steins is saying, what says Father Franz Schmidberger."

In twenty years the Novus Ordo will be gone

Father Pfluger ventured the understanding that the Pope is still not able to abolish the New Mass.

At the present all priests and Bishops celebrate this rite.

But: "In twenty years, then the Pope will do it."


Pater, O.S.B. said...

Abolished in twenty years??

O!! Only if that were so!!!! One can always hope.

Tancred said...

I think Cardinal Ranjith made a similar prediction.

Православный физик said...

20 years...yes!

Anonymous said...

Why wait? Souls will be at risk.

Anonymous said...

You might want to do a general spell check.
I found at least 1 misspelled word.
You might be able to find more.

Anonymous said...

Fr. Phluger may be too optimistic now when Benedict XVI wants to replace both the Novus Ordo and the TLM with a hybrid.

Cantor Nikolaos said...

Make me a bishop, and I'll see how much of it I can abolish. It will be judgement day for the modernists!

Anonymous said...

St. Pio is not for the new mass but the tradtional Latin mass of SSPX or SSPV. The poor bishops and priests of the new mass can't obey the POpe and the church rules because their too many disrespect of liberal ones going against the Pope and the Church as they will not do any support unless all work against the Pope

woeiruoweiruw said...

The Pope is 85. If he does it in 20 years it will be from Heaven.

Tancred said...

We may have an 85 year old Pope, but God's in charge and He's eternal.

Consolamini said...

boy, have things changed in three years all that "progress" made under Pope Benedict has dissolved into thin air