Tuesday, March 27, 2018

New Old LIberal Bishop is Worried by the Immemorial Mass of All Ages

The Traditional Mass concerns the new Bishop of Porto, while the abolition of priestly celibacy would "not shock" him.
(Lisbon) On 15 March Pope Francis appointed a new Bishop of Porto. For the first time in recent days, the diocesan bishop has spoken in the media for the first time. Topics included the celibacy of the priests and the traditional rite.
On September 11, 2017, Bishop Antonio Francisco dos Santos of Porto was stricken unexpectedly at the age of 69 by a heart attack. His death triggered unease in part of the clergy. It was urged to change the Apostolic Nuncio, because he was "not enough of a Bergoglian". Only then should the follow-up question be tackled. This did not happen, but the new bishop sent out signals that could satisfy this part of the clergy.
The new Bishop of Porto is Manuel da Silva Rodrigues Linda. In the Autumn of 2013, Pope Francis appointed him military bishop of the country. Francis has now made him the diocesan bishop of Porto.
The exact date of origin of this diocese is unknown. It is certain that in the 6th century it was consolidated under the rule of the Suevs as a stable institution. During the subsequent Islamic rule, information about the bishops of Porto is missing for approximately 150 years. The diocese is a suffragan of the Archdiocese of Braga.

"That would not shock me"

The Jornal de Noticias has published the first big interview of the new bishop on March 25th. It is from a video interview taken by editors of the same newspaper and also published.
To abolish the celibacy of priests, the bishop said:
"That would not shock me. In the same way as the norm of celibacy has come, it can disappear again. At the beginning of the church the priests were married men." 
Bishop Manuel da Silva Rodrigues Linda was also interviewed on the admission of remarried divorced people to the Sacraments. Various Portuguese diocese have already published guidelines on this.
Jornal de Noticias: Will you also prepare a message about the remarried divorced? How will it comply with the Pope's instructions to integrate these situations in your diocese? Will you follow the Bishop of Braga or more to the Cardinal Patriarch of Lisbon?
Bishop Linda: Pope Francis does not provide any solutions, he initiates challenges. And the process is to scan the terrain, as we experienced in the Synod. It should be a way of study. The road from Braga seems very balanced. It is that couples who find themselves in this situation and want to re-enter the fullness of the Church's life should spend at least half a year examining the reasons why they want to do it, supported by technicians [SIC], psychologists, priests, and other married people [scary].
Jornal de Noticias: If a remarried person feels ready to receive the Eucharist, is such a great therapeutic effort necessary?
Bishop Linda: That is it! We are not just talking about a legal level, but also about the depth of conscience.
Jornal de Noticias: But is that not going to be an even bigger stigma for many remarried people, who already feel effectively stigmatized?
Bishop Linda: There are many typologies among the remarried divorced so that we have to clarify each case and analyze how far it is in accordance with the Church.

Repent because "strict groups were given space"

The new bishop was also asked by the newspaper about the "return" of Holy Mass in the traditional rite.
Bishop Linda: I am very worried because in certain cases it ties up the boys and especially the intellectuals. We do not know why these individuals find satisfaction in these rites.  
At the same time, Bishop Linda criticized Pope Benedict XVI because in 2007 he opened the traditional form of the Roman Rite home again in the Church.
The bishop said that the video interview did not make it clear whether he meant it ironically, but what to assume:
"Maybe we bishops and priests should repent because we gave room to these strict groups."
Text: Giuseppe Nardi
Image: Jornal de Noticias (screenshot)
Trans: Tancred vekron99@hotmail.com


John F. Kennedy said...

"Maybe we bishops and priests should repent because we gave room to these strict groups." Yes, please resign and possibly prevent many souls of being led astray.

Unbelievable that a Bishop could have the belief that the "Mass of the Ages" is a problem.

Anonymous said...

Maybe we should all pray and do penance so that God will have mercy on us and thrust the pedophile pervert demons back into hell.

Anonymous said...

And take get rid of Santorum too.

M. Prodigal said...

Oh my! The poor faithful of Porto. Our Lady said that in Portugal--how was it--the faith would not be lost? But with poor shepherds like this, it surely will be a small remnant.

JBQ said...

Whatever happens in Portugal is very noteworthy because of the significance of the apparitions at Fatima. As a soccer-football fan, I am very aware of the significance of Porto and Braga with Lisbon not so much so. Bishop Linda is just "one more clown" to be met on the road to Emmaus.

Anonymous said...

They should worry about bigger problems like the loss of souls.

Catholic Mission said...

The Bishop is not worried about the Immemorial Latin Mass of All Ages or the Immemorial Greek Mass of All Ages but is worried about the exclusivist ecclesiology associated with this Mass.He could also be worried if he knew, that the Novus Ordo Mass could also be interpreted with the old ecclesiology of the Church.But he is not worried about this neither he nor the traditionalists are aware of it.

Tancred said...

Real liturgists know that the Roman Rite is more ancient than the Greek.

Catholic Mission said...

MARCH 28, 2018
Bishop of Porto,Portiugal Manuel da Silva's mistake - liturgy does not determine 'the strict groups' : it is LOHO which decides ecclesiology

Catholic Mission said...

I think the Roman Rite, the Mass in Latin is a continuation of the Mass in Greek and this makes it the immemorial Mass.The Novus Ordo Mass is a continuation of this Mass of All Ages.

So without the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 (LOHO) error Mass in English would have the same ecclesiology as Mass in Greek and Latin.

Also without the LOHO error the present ecclesiology of Mass in Latin, will not be a rupture with the ecclesiology of Mass in Latin, during the 16th century.

Presently there is no unity in theology and doctrine among those who offer/attend the Traditional Latin Mass.

The traditionalists at the St.Benedict Centers, affirm Feeneyite extra ecclesiam nulla salus at Mass since there are no known exceptions of the baptism of desire(BOD), baptism of blood(BOB) and being saved in invincible ignorance(I.I) for them.They reject the LOHO reasosong.
At the SSPX Latin Mass they reject Feeneyite EENS and affirm the LOHO reasoning(invsible people are visible in the present times).Similarly for the community FSSP, BOD, BOB and I.I are exceptions to Feeneyite EENS. So there is created two different ecclesiologies and an understanding of salvation. One with and the other wirhout the LOHO reasoning.
So the SSPX offers Mass with the new ecclesiology.This is not the Mass of the 16th century where LOHO reasoning did not exist.The missionaries in the 16th century accepted BOD, BOB and I.I as being only hypothetical and speculative . So they could not be objective examples of salvation outside the Church.
So in this sense the present Latin Mass offered by Una Voce is not the Mass of All Ages in its ecclesiology.Since Una Voce supports the LOHO reasoning.There is no more an ecumenism of return with their New Theology, Cushingite Theology.This is a rupture with the past.
So the ecclesiology of the FSSP and Una Voce Mass is the same as the Novus Ordo Mass.

For me there is no change in ecclesiology before and after Vatican Council II since I reject the second part of LOHO, since it contradicts the first part. So the Novus Ordo Mass is also the immemorial Mass of All Ages for me.It is a continuation of the old Rite, which affirmed the traditional exclusivist interpretation of outside the Church there is no salvation.-Lionel Andrades

Catholic Mission said...

MARCH 31, 2018
Sedevacantism, Traditionalism and Liberalism based on Vatican Council II with the premise is finished : the LOHO(1949) and liberal theologians depended upon an objective error

Tancred said...

People who attend the Immemorial Mass are not that monolithic. How many people attending the NOM do you know who actually believe what you do in Italy or anywhere for that matter? The vast majority don’t believe it at all and are thoroughly indifferentist and even universalist in their outlooks.

Frederick Niles said...

Who are these 'real' liturgists, Tancred. Name them and their publications. I wager you won't because you can't. Allegations without evidential proof is just hot air.

William O said...

It must be a source of profound consolation for you Lionel that God conforms so strictly to the doctrine taught by Feeney.

Catholic Mission said...

There is mathematicaly precision in our doctrine.
When they are in harmony everything ties up there are no loose ends.

Catholic Mission said...

I dont like to pit one Mass against another.It still is the Sacrifice of Jesus enacted in an un-bloody way. I have attended solemn Masses in Italian and English.Then even when there is a guitar Mass I remain recollected and am aware of where I am.Even at the Neo-Catehecumenal Way Mass it was with great love and devotion that I held the Eucharist in my palm and watched it. This was a long time back. I have not since attended their Mass.
Even at the Greek Mass there was a sense of the sacred for me.
For me the priests who offer the Traditional Latin Mass or Novus Ordo Mass in Rome are not affirming the dogma EENS and the past ecclesiology. They are also interpreting Vatican Council II as a rupture with the past ecclesiology.
If there was a priest who could proclaim the Faith clearly and boldly from the pulpit it would be something.
The vast majority of Catholics at all Rites do not have the Faith proclaimed to them.-Lionel

Catholic Mission said...

In all Rites in Italy they do not say that all non Catholics and all non Catholics need to enter the Church as members for salvation( to avoid Hell) and this is the teaching of the Catholic Church before and after Vatican Council II.

APRIL 2, 2018
Of course the Church says that there are people in Hell in the present times: the Catechisms and Vatican Council II support Feeneyite extra ecclesiam nulla salus

Anonymous said...

Someone needs to repent for nominating him and ordaining him to the episcopate. TS

Catholic Mission said...

He is a liberal who uses the same theology as the sedevacantists and traditionalists.

APRIL 4, 2018
Trad+Cath+Forum Responsibles in mortal sins of faith, need to go for Confession : common error among Catholics