Wednesday, August 10, 2016

Msgr. Antonio Livi: "This Pope Lets Public Opinion Break Within the Church"

The Epistemology Professor Msgr. Antonio Livi, Contributor
to the Encyclical Fides et Ratio (1998), on some questions about
this Pontificate
(Rome) Should the Church apologize to homosexuals, as Pope Francis said in June? What consequences have yet spontaneous and controversial chatter of the Pope with the press? How does one receive Holy Communion? And why doesn't pope  Pope Francis kneel for the consecration? These questions were asked by Msgr. Antonio Livi, who had been involved with  the encyclical Fides et Ratio  (Faith and Reason, 1998) of John Paul II..
Msgr. Antonio Livi was Dean of the Faculty of Arts of the Pontifical Lateran University  where he is professor emeritus of epistemology.  He is president of the International Science and Common Sense Association (ISCA), editor of the theological journals Fides Catholica and Divinitas , president of the Scientific Advisory Board for the publication of the collected works of Cardinal Giuseppe Siri and founder of Unio Apostolica Fides et Ratio for the scientific defense of Catholic truth.

Still  missing in the fourth year of the Argentine pontificate is an official explanation of why Pope Francis does not genuflect during the consecration. It is often heard that it was a health issue, but there is no evidence. The Vatican expert Antonio Socci was even accused of "lying" by other Catholics, as he criticized  Pope Francis for this. Attempts by the Catholic media have published  rebuttal images of the kneeling pope, without realizing that they therefore,  have not weakened doubts about why the Pope does not genuflect even during the Eucharistic Prayer,  but strengthened them. The pope kneels on Holy Thursday at the most "spectacular" Washing feet, he knelt in a prayer meeting of the Charismatic Renewal, he kneels, if he confesses and he has even knelt  at Eucharistic adoration. All the more incomprehensible and oppressive is the question is still asked why he consistently omits the prescribed genuflection in the celebration of Holy Mass.

"Pope flattered the world for self-promotion after"

FQ: In the Return from Armenia Pope Francis said in the traditional flying press conference among others, that the Church should apologize to  homosexuals. What is your opinion?
Monsignor Antonio Livi. I think that is the statement of Pope Francis on this point causes   too many different interpretations and misunderstandings on a pastoral and doctrinal level. Incidentally, what Bergoglio says in a conversation with journalists while returning from an apostolic journey, though interesting and important, yet certainly can not ascribe itself to the value of a magisterial act. Still less is such a discourse that is of such doctrinal soundness, that it could be opposed to the actual documents of the Magisterium. When the Catholic Church officially would take a stand on this issue, they always had - and it has today - a coherent line which is guided by the Word of God and the doctrine which interprets this word in an infallible way. The doctrinal tradition of the Church (the dogma and the moral standards that follow from it) can now be easily gleaned from any Catholic faithful if he has recourse to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, desired and promulgated by St. John Paul II.  Also, in terms of the judgment of the Church on homosexual acts, I would  not have much to add to what we read in the Catechism, which contains a safe, definitive and very clear teaching. The Church has always warned all, who wanted to learn from her the revealed truth of God, about the seriousness inherent in  voluntary and conscious homosexual acts that are and are among the abominations, a sin against nature, according to "which cry out to God for vengeance." It is therefore impossible that the Pope wanted to abolish a conversation on the plane the entire tradition of the Church and the applicable provisions of canon law. Rather, I think that Pope Francis - as usual - might be trying to send a message that is agreeable to the culture, which now occupies a hegemonic position in the Western world, a culture that is characterized by absurd demands for legitimacy, yes to claim that homosexual behavior has public role models, including the imitation of the true, natural marriage. It is obvious that the Pope, in this as in many other occasions, talking to the journalists from the international media, followed criteria that are not expressed by the Magisterium, but only the Vatican diplomacy and the media policy. He wanted to flatter the world. He has said yes,  which these  people like, when you speak politically correctly. It is a kind of self-promotion  by putting down the Catholic Church. From this viewpoint, it is not to dare to say that this Pope (without thereby pointing fingers or trying to assess the non-negotiable decisions of the supreme authority of the Church) is not so much the Church as such, but   public opinion has certainly collapsed within the Church. In fact, this kind of spontaneous speech leaves many people - who now get their information almost solely from secular and Masonic media - think that the Church really has changed opinion on these issues and  has set aside the everlasting doctrine.  But this is not so, because the can not be so.

"Hand Communion is Protestant and to be avoided"

Kneeling Communion under Pope Benedict XVI.

FQ: The Holy Communion: how is it properly received?
Monsignor Antonio Livi. The consecrated Host, which is the body of Christ is to be received in the mouth and while kneeling. It has been prescribed  this way for centuries by the Church. This is the only form that has respect for the sacrament of the Eucharist, the reputation of the liturgy and the feeling of adoration which arises from the true faith in the real presence of Christ, the incarnate God under the species of bread and wine, appropriate when the priest has consecrated it in the Mass. Hand Communion, which is somewhat Protestant (because they wants to emphasize the dimension of the meal, which the Eucharist has) should be avoided, and was in fact granted by Pope Paul VI. only as an exception, to appeal to  some Catholic episcopates in Europe, and Pope Benedict XVI. was clearly against it. The practice of hand Communion trivializes the sacrament, and then sometimes it comes actually leads to mass profanation as has happened in Manila on the occasion of the Mass of Pope Francis, attended by two million people, and reduced the moment of Communion to an indescribable chaos. Communion is to be offered in the mouth and if possible to the faithful, kneeling to receive. By kneeling, we bring all our worship to expression. Today one kneels only slightly because the Lutheran spirit has penetrated, and also because the consciousness of the sacred is disappearing. One forgets that the Gospel says: "Therefore God has highly exalted / and gave him the name, / which is above every name, so that / every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, before name of Jesus and every tongue confess that /, Jesus Christ is Lord' -for the glory of God the Father." (Phil 2:9-11).

"Omission of the genuflection probably not for a health problem"

Kneeling foot washing on Holy Thursday

FQ: Pope Francis omits genuflecting during the consecration: Why?
Monsignor Antonio Livi. One has to ask him. The "sections" of the Roman Missal (also of Paul VI., which is currently in force for the ordinary form of the rite) stipulate that the celebrant after the consecration of the bread and also after the consecration of the wine has to genuflect to mark  worship. No one can deliberately ignore what is required by applicable liturgical rules. It seems to me, at least according to the published images that the show the Pope on Holy Thursday kneeling for the ritual washing of the feet,  makes me think that it is, therefore, not an orthopedic problem, nor is it a matter of health. I fear that this behavior is a bad example, but I'm not going to make a drama out of it and it does not scandalize me. Church history is full of popes in one way or another (always coincidentally, never substantially) gave a bad example. The same Popes also gave at the same time good examples of holiness and especially, they were never lacking because they preserved the despositum fidei  intact, which neither originated with them or was dependent upon them, but the word of God himself, Who loves us and wants our eternal salvation.
Introduction / translation: Giuseppe Nardi
Image: Corrispondenza Romana / Fides et Forma
Trans: Tancred
Link to Katholisches....


Anonymous said...

Soon he will have to kneel before Jesus, whether he wants to or not.

Gerard K said...

He suffers from severe Sciatica which affects his physical ability to genuflect without but not to kneel. Maybe kneeling is painful.
Discussion about any person's physical disabilities or limitations let alone the Pope's is not worthy of a medium such as this.

Jan said...

That does not seem to stop him from kneeling to wash the feet of Infidels. Nobody is buying the sciatica excuse. I have severe back problems and though it is excruciating at times I kneel before my Lord. I see old and crippled women kneel before the Tabernacle because they have the LOVE for Jesus and the HUMILITY to ask for some assistance in carrying out their pious HOMAGE.

Francis NEVER kneels. That alone proves that it is not due to any physical condition.

N.D. said...

Men and women are designed in such a way that it is not possible to engage in same-sex sexual acts without demeaning our inherent Dignity as beloved sons and daughters. No one should be condoning demeaning sexual acts of any nature including between a man and woman united in marriage as husband and wife.

Why not tell those men and women who have developed a same-sex sexual attraction the truth? It is because we Love you, and respect your Dignity as a beloved son or daughter, that we cannot condone the engaging in or affirmation of any act, including any sexual act that demeans your inherent Dignity as a beloved son or daughter. The desire to engage in a demeaning act of any nature, does not change the nature of the act. We Love you, and because we Love you, we desire that you will always be treated with, and will always treat others with Dignity and respect in private as well as in public. We will not tolerate the engaging in or condoning of sexual behavior that does not reflect the upmost respect for the human person.If is not Loving or Merciful to deny someone The Truth of Love.

N.D. said...

Prior to being elected pope, Jorge Bergoglio condoned same-sex sexual relationships as long as they were not called marriage and did not include children. He should appologize to those persons to whom he denied The Truth of Love,

Anonymous said...

The Truth of Love does not include same sex couples. That is an abomination and a grave sin before God. Always has been, in all civilizations throughout all time....even times of ancient Egypt, Rome, Greece, etc.

Has anyone read the articles now appearing in newspapers claiming that Francis is actually terminally ill with severe lung problems, that he was out of breath and suffering during his trip to Poland, and that he had a dizzy spell and collapsed at Czechtochowa, not just that he missed a step?
The article claimed he is a lot sicker than the Vatican says...and that he will be dead this time next year.
I'm not wishing anyone to suffer or die, but the demise of Francis and the election of a true Catholic who dresses, speaks, actls like Pope and who maintains Catholic tradition would be a very great blessing form God this time next year.
Damian Malliapalli

Woody said...

This piece by Msgr Livi is a very hopeful sign that some,mat least, in the conservative camp are waking up to the disastrous state of affairs that is now ongoing in the Vatican. Let us see, however, if he gets away with this, or whether he will be disowned, as his Prelature did with Bishop Livieres.

Tancred said...

Clearly he does kneel, just not for the Consecration, so like with a lot of lefty clergy who refuse to kneel for the Consecration, claims of physical inability are BS.

Ivan said...

We sit here and make comments about this Pope, but the spiritual chastisement element of this Pontificate is truly horrific. Surely Our Lady will make 2017 the year of her Triumph.

PaxTecum57 said...

Thank God we still have holy men in the Church to lead us. I can't say I'm a great fan of Vatican ll but the Council Documents state that standing for Communion is only an exception where there are such a large number of communicants receiving Communion. And this only so as not to prolong the Mass. Kneeling for Communion is the rule. Strange, after V2 kneeling for communion was abolished, prohibited and considered to be an anti-Vatican ll abomination.

Nicolas Bellord said...

There is a lot of truth in what the Monsignor says. Watering down the faith in the hope of attracting more people has never worked; people just see the Church as then being of no consequence. I mean why bother?

Filomena said...

Totally agree with you, Jan! God bless you.

N.D. said...

Christ Is The Way, The Truth, and The Life (Light) of Love.

Anonymous said...

I don't much approve of this pontificate, but I don't wish the pope ill. Perhaps he should seek treatment for his possible ailments about the time of the Lutheran summit at the end of October?

I'm expecting that 2017 will not be Our Lady's triumph, but rather her letting go of Our Lord's arm. We have to do a lot of penance and need a general reboot before I expect to see Our Lady's Triumph, may it happen soon.

Anonymous said...

I think that the Lord will recall Pope Francis to himself in 2017, and the Catholic Church will wait expectantly for his successor, who I still believe will be 100% the opposite of Pope Francis....perhaps not extremely young....but younger than Francis. But he will sweep clean the filth of the radical liberals and progressives and the pro-homo cliques which have become entrenched in the Vatican over the last 3+ years.
The next Pope will in his moderately long reign be able to restore much of the Papacy and the Catholic Church back to tradition.....not all the way though. That work will be left to his successor. By the time the new Pope dies, people like Tagle will be either dead, or too old to be considered for the next conclave!
Damian Malliapalli

Ivan said...

I expect Our Lord's arm to fall and Our Lady's Immaculate Heart to Triumph in 2017. Twelve months is plenty of time for both to occur. Think of civil wars, natural disasters and fire falling from the sky, at the same time.

P.J.David said...

I too expect that Almighty God will take Bergoglio away from this world early 2017 and the next Pope will restore the Tradition.All the wolves in Sheeps' clothes will also leave Rome.
Tagle is a a bad specimen in Good Philippine , in a country with many good Catholic Bishops and faithful.
Let us pray that God saves many souls perishing under Bergoglio, a man who is so arrogant that he never kneels before the Omni Potent God in the Most Blessed Sacrament. An horrible Jesuit, a religious congregation not worth its name.

Anonymous said...

I read a recent article about the down to about 16,700 members, with barely 1,000 of them brothers. That class (Jesuit brothers), will soon die out.
Since the election of Bergoglio, there have not been more aspirants to the Jesuit order. Even in India (where there is the largest concentration of Jesuits by nation...about 3,300 in India), vocations have not gone up. It's tragic about the Jesuits...36,100 in 1963-64,---16,700 today. There were over 10,000 Jesuit priests just in the USA in 1960!! Today there are less than 2,000, with an average age of 71. World-wade, the average age of a Jesuit priest is 67, which is young compared to some Orders....the Trappists have less than 800 priests left...and most of them are over 75! Some Orders of liberal nuns have a median age of 80!
But the Jesuits have not fared better under Bergoglio. Soon the disasterous reign of Francis will be over.
Won't it be nice to have a Pope again hopefully dresses as a Pope, speaks as a Pope, acts like a Pope, lives in the Apostolic Palace, appreciates Papal vesture and pomp(as did Benedict XVI), and who vacations at Castel Gandolfo. How they are praying to be rid of Francis there !!! Unbelievable!
Damian Malliapalli

Anonymous said...

Please God: take Pope Francis to heaven as soon as possible. Preferably before the end of the year - but of course, Thy will be done!

Cyril said...

Igor, Slobodan, down boys, down!

Carl J said...

Think of how much a team of psychiatrists could make out of your bag of pathologies, Stevie.

Ben said...

What pompous, pretentious shallow minded mean ass gits you two characters are. You're clinging to the corpse of silly delusions.

Tancred said...

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