Thursday, August 25, 2016

13 New Cardinals -- The Third Cardinal Consistory by Pope Francis -- Third World Church

(New York) On November 19, the third ordinary public consistory of this pontificate will take place for the creation of new cardinals. The message has not been officially announced by the Holy See, but comes from the progressive American Jesuit magazine America .
Pope Francis has convened the consistory for the conclusion of the Holy Year of Mercy. Total wants the Pope, the Jesuit magazine, appoint thirteen new cardinals. The names will be announced in mid-October.
Previously Francis has appointed  39 Cardinals altogether at two consistories. 31 of them are entitled to vote in the conclave. Eight of new cardinals will be 80 at the time of their appointment.
According to America  it will fall to the Pope in the third Cardinal consistory to move the church "from the center to the periphery." An absolute majority of European cardinals will be "impossible" at the next conclave.
Currently there are 107 Cardinals in the Catholic Church  who could act as papal electors in  conclave.With the new appointments Francis will fill the electoral body to the ceiling established by  John Paul II of 120 electors. 51 of the 107 electors come from Europe, which has, for a thousand years in the conclave and in for the first time ever in Church history to relinquish its absolute majority in the election of the Pope  and humanly speaking, will never recover.
On November 20, the Pope will celebrate High Mass together with the new cardinals in St. Peter's. 
Text: Giuseppe Nardi
Image: MiL
Trans: Tancred


Anonymous said...

Tentative; based on rumor and speculation.

Here are some other items also based on rumor and speculation about the next consistory and Pope Francis – by Anura Gurunge at the “New Hampshire – The Live Free or Die State” website (

6/26/16: Will Pope Francis Retire/Resign In December 2016 — And If So November 19 Consistory?

Pope Francis will turn 80 on December 17, 2016.

Pope Francis has repeatedly stated, voluntarily, from the very start of his papacy on March 13, 2013, that his will be a short papacy and that he will have no qualms about retiring — though the notion of pope’s retiring only became a reality with the last pope, Benedict XVI.

Age ’80’, since the 1970s, has become an artificial ‘high water mark’ in Catholicism since this is when cardinals lose their right to vote in conclaves — while the nominal retirement agent for Archbishops, Bishops and senior curial officers is 75.

While the pope does not have to retire EVER — IF he does want to retire then turning 80 would be a symbolic time (and one that would be much appreciated by cardinals who don’t really like losing their franchise upon reaching that age).

December 17 isn’t that far away. If he resigns on or around his birthday there will be CHAOS with Christmas but two weeks away! They would have to hold a conclave just ahead of Christmas. That would be inconvenient. Yes, he can announce his retirement on his birthday and say that (like Benedict XVI) he will step down after ‘x-weeks’. That would take us into mid-January, and a conclave towards the end of January 2017.

Francis in his 3 years and 3 months as pope has held 2 cardinal creating consistories and created a total of 39 cardinals. That is unremarkable, not too many or not too little. Right now there are 112 cardinal electors (120 the supposed (but untested) MAX). There is no quorum per se. 60 cardinals electors could, quite legitimately, elect a pope. There were 117 eligible cardinal electors for the 2015 conclave and 113 participated.

The annual November “Solemnity of Christ the King” is a favored time, ‘of late’, for cardinal creating consistories. This year it will fall on Sunday, November 20, 2016. So the consistory will be held on the Saturday, November 19th, with the celebratory Mass on the Sunday feast.

November 19th is a propitious day for a cardinal creating consistory. Italian Cardinal Ennio Antonelli will turn 80 the day before opening up one more cardinal elector slot. Barring deaths, with Antonelli’s aging out the electors will be down to 108 on November 19th. Another, Théodore-Adrien Sarr, will turn 80 on November 28th — 9 days later. So there will be 13 genuine cardinal elector slots. That is a nice number to fill.

So, some food for thought.

8/22/16: November 2016 Cardinal Creating Consistory Or Will Pope Francis Hold Out Till February 2017?

In this post in June 2016 [above] I had opined that November 19, 2016 would be a logical date for the next cardinal creating consistory — Pope Francis‘ third.

However, after what had been a long hiatus, I was talking, this weekend, with cardinalabili expert Louis Epstein. He believes that Pope Francis will wait till February 2017 given that both his prior cardinal creating consistories were in February.

He definitely has the option of waiting till February or even later.

We have 111 cardinal electors right now. Three will age-out (i.e., reach 80) by November 19, 2016. Three more would have aged out by February 16, 2017.

So, barring deaths, there will be 108 electors in November 2016 and 105 in February 2017. This is plenty enough to elect a pope.

So this again begs the question as to whether Pope Francis, who turns 80 on December 17, 2016, plans to retire anytime soon as he has been intimating for ‘years’. Louis thinks that Francis is having too much fun right now to retire. He could be right. If he doesn’t plan to retire before February 2017 he could very well wait till then for the next consistory.

susan said...

It is "The Camp of the Saints" on a spiritual level.

I still believe he'll be dead in September; a time, two times, and half a time since he was 'elected'. That would be a pretty clear sign that he is indeed the false prophet of end days. I don't believe that God will allow the blasphemy-fest of a pope celebrating the 'reformation' on about an abomination.

Please Lord, cleanse your temple of the wolves and filth.

Anonymous said...

We'll see if Francis is true to his word on picking from "the peripheries", and not traditional red hat archepiscopal sees, but 20 bucks says Cupich still gets the North America pick.

Barnum said...


Please, get a grip on it. What are you talking about? The Camp of the Saints was on a "spiritual level?" M. Raspail is, or more appropriately, was, diagnosing the European spiritual feebleness. He also did this in other novels of his, especially, of those dealing with suddenly decaying societies or cultures, whichever term you wish to use.

Have you ever read "The Camp of the Saints?"

The Lord warned us of wolves in sheep's clothing. Pray for Jorge's conversion, and don't worry about his death.

God allows all evils, as they are the result of the free will he gave us. Popes are not immune to their own free wills struggling between God's Grace and the effects of original sin.

We might get good old wannabe trailing edge Blases in the mix, but an inevitable dozen other Asian and African bishops who actually believe in Christ (and most of them do) and know suffering first-- or even second-hand-- will make it to the College. Also, idealization aside, those African and Asian bishops tend, as shown by actions, to love their flocks.

Barnum said...

I don't care whether the Church is First World, Second World (funny how that world, now "refugee"-denying- and never seemed to matter)or Third World. Give us the Sacraments.

Tancred said...

Third World's globalist implications are fairly poisonous to the Church at large.

James said...

I have no doubt this is true. The Vatican II Revolution is about to go full throttle. Thanks a lot Pope Benedict!

Unless Pope Francis dies between now and the cardinal announcement, everything will definitely collapse and be lost. The One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church has become a Banana Republic and a moral free-for-all under Francis: just be nice, recycle, give a slice of pizza to the homeless, then go off and do whatever you want.

susan said...

Barnum, are you capable of reading, and comprehending analogy? I said this situation was The Camp of the Saints on a spiritual level. If you can't see the analogy, then I can't help you. And yes, I read the was most disturbing, and the analogy is an apt one.

Again, how do you know that I don't pray for jorge's conversion every day? You're just looking for someone to fight with now that gabriel's mostly expunged. How bout you go fishing elsewhere, cause frankly I'm all tapped out.

Anonymous said...

Always thought it strange that the vision of Fatima described a Bishop dressed in white ,the word Pope or Holy Father was not used,i think that's very significant.

Barnum said...


My apologies for being rough on you, I didn't mean that to come out the way it did. But it did. Please forgive me.

Still, the upcoming consistory is not the Camp of the Saints on the spiritual level. Christ promised that the gates of Hell will not prevail against the Church. He did not promise that Europe would not die. Europe (western, at least) is dying because it has largely abandoned the Faith. The Church cannot abandon the Faith, which is not to say that individual members, even the Pope, can't.

Barnum said...

What do you mean by "Third World's globalist implications?"

Tancred said...

Isn't it part of Bergoglio's agenda to push his progressive vision by pushing the Church to the margins?

Tancred said...

Humanly speaking, we've been lost for a log time, and the faithful has been reduced to a very small remnant indeed.

Ivan said...

That's because it was a vision that Lucia was describing. Lucia also added that we had the impression that it was the Holy Father. The un-published part of the Secret contains the text of Our Lady's words. I would be interested to know if Our Lady identified Pope John Paul I as the Bishop dressed in white.

Prayerful said...

Germany has maybe 90 new seminarians. The Faith is dying in Europe outside of outliers like Poland, Malta or perhaps Ireland, if it isn't quite dead. Most Conciliar priests will be saying the New Mass by video feed. 'Not enough priests' doesn't convey the massive shortage of priests, which has outpaced the collapse in religious practice. Perhaps seminary directors reject orthodox young men, with the hope that the priest, the alter Christus is largely removed. Some sort of People's Church is preferred by the Cardinal Marx or Tagles of the world.

I just hope Pope Francis retires. This will mean two retired Popes, but these three years have been hazardous to the Faith. He has managed to attack marriage and largely nullify Catholic opposition to abortion. JP2 erred with the Assisi Gathering, but he was utterly clear in his witness for life. Pope Francis praises Senator Emma Bonino, an abortion doctor, as 'one of Italy's forgotten greats.'

Anonymous said...

"JP2 erred with the Assisi Gathering, but he was utterly clear in his witness for life." Actually, JP2 appointed Bergoglio, McCarrick and almost the entire Team B as Cardinals (and also all the German prodeath Cardinals). There could not be a more pro-abort group EVAH. What pro-abort politician did JP2 excommunicate? When most Catholics would have been shocked (shocked) if the pope had said abortion was okay, JP2 said some prolife words OCCASIONALLY (add up the times!). Now Bergoglio praises abortion, fornication, sodomy, divorce, transgenderism, man-beasts, pedophilia (and associates w/ and appoints open pedophiles like Barros, Ricca, Danneels) and all you "prayerfuls" who thought JP2 was great while 60 million babies were murdered in the U.S. in cold blood by Catholics: Kennedy, Biden, Cuomo, Ferraro, Pelosi, Mikulski, etc. etc. etc. are looking at transgender bathrooms, sodomite marriage, public urination and nudity, transvestites and bestiality in the Army, assisted suicide and euthanasia laws.

Barnum said...

I am not really sure what you have in mind. Are you saying that somehow Soros or Freemasonry is driving the consistory, especially the selection?

If the Church in Europe is going to die out, maybe they don't need all these Church-shrinking German, Spanish, French, Italian, etc. cardinals. Maybe, after the great apostasy has taken its toll, only one cardinal will be necessary for what was formerly Europe west of the Oder-Trieste line.

Anonymous said...

A Pope who praises an abortionist (Bonino) as a "heroine" is pro-abortion, plain and simple. A bishop (Cupich) who says that being unemployed or "undocumented" is just as bad as being aborted is pro-abortion, plain and simple.

Anonymous said...

That is interesting, but we still don't know why J-P one was 'offed'.

susan said...

No harm Barnum....everyone seems to be on edge these days. The spiritual battle is picking up speed.

God bless.

Anonymous said...

Pope Francis has already squelched the retirement at 80 rumours.

Athelstane said...

I don't know where he'll be selecting cardinals from, but I think I'd rather be pulling extras from Africa right now than most of Western Europe, all things being equal.