Friday, July 24, 2015

Bistro or Mosque? A Discussion With Uncertain Outcome -- Imam Proposes Occupying Christian Churches in France

Franciscan allows Muslims to pray facing Mecca, so
that Christians children, "learn how a man prays in Islam."
(Paris) The imam of the Great Mosque of Paris, Dalil Boubakeur said it frankly: "The currently existing mosques are not enough. Their number must reflect the faithful of our religion." And as the construction of new mosques costs and it is not always easy to obtain building permits, why not take advantage of the many vacant Catholic churches standing around in the country of Franceg you?
"This is a sensitive issue, but why not?" Boubakeur wrote in his book "An Open Letter to the French".  Previously, the father of Algerian Boubakeur was imam of the Great Mosque of Paris. The family derives its descent from Abu Bakr, the first caliph after Muhammad's death.
Ultimately, says the Imam, who was the President of the Islamic umbrella organization, Conseil Francais du Musulman, from  2003 - 2008 and 2013 - 2015 (Muslim Cultural Advisory of France), founded by the French Ministry of Culture,  there is a model already, which could be applied large-scale nationwide. In Clermont-Ferrand, the chapel of the Good Shepherd was left to the Muslim community for free for more than 30 years. Ultimately, "it's the same God", as the local superiors stressed.

After criticism the Imam Pulled Back

Given the immediate and above all unexpected protests, Boubakeur backtracked, claiming that he was  misrepresented, he had never asked for like.
The editor of the French magazine La Vie, Jean-Pierre Denis commented a few days ago, ironically: "I was surprised by just how I must confess that the media have taken this lie, although  these ideas appear in black and white on pages 270 / wrote down 271 of his book."
While the media willingly accepted  Boubakeur's lie, there is a reaction from the people: More than 40,000 French people already signed the petition, launched a few days ago: "Stay away from my church."
Among the first signatories there are 25 politicians of the Gaullist right and some intellectuals. Even ex-President Nicolas Sarkozy supports the call.
A survey reported by the Washington Post, emphasized that 80 percent of supporters of Sarkozy's UMP party reject the proposal of the would-be  Mosque transfer.
Among the supporters of the National Front (FN) it is as high as 83 percent.
But even among the voters of the ruling Socialist Party (PS), the enemies of the Boubakeur proposal with 58 percent are clearly in the majority.

Catholic Church itself split on  this issue

Dalil Boubakeur: Convert vacant churches into mosques
Unforeseeable was the split on this issue within the Catholic Church.
Various bishops responded immediately with sharp tones on the proposal and kept them up. 
The traditional friendly bishop of Frejus and Toulon, Msgr. Dominique Rey, whose diocese is one of the best placed of France, took the first position.  Without further adieu,  he called Boubakeurs foray as an "insult to our collective memory",  describing the proposal as an attack on "our culture and our roots." Bishop Rey made ​​it clear that "the Churches are neither interchangeable nor omnicultic."
Along the same lines followed Bishop Stanislas Lalanne of Pontoise: "I am absolutely against the idea, that churches could be sold to Muslims and converted into mosques. I understand the need to have places for prayer, but the proposal of Boubakeur is the wrong answer. "
However, some dissenting voices were heard. 
Msgr. Michel Dubost, the head of the Department of Religious Affairs of the French Bishops' Conference made ​​it known that it would preferable for him to have  the unused churches as mosques instead of bars and restaurants.
Dubost criticized the petition by stating, "to preserve the church from this fate" the best way is to "participate regularly in the Mass.".

"Churches are sacred places, they can not be used for other purposes"

Opposition came from Bishop Lalanne, who is also member of the Standing Council of the Bishops' Conference: "The churches are holy places. Even if they are not open every day to the faithful, they can not be used for other purposes that are not an expression of the Christian faith. We must not play with the symbols. These places are the memory of generations and generations of believers who have visited to pray," said the bishop.
It is noteworthy that Dalil Boubakeur is by no means an Islamist but is a representative of a "Euro Islam" or "liberal Islam". The imams of the Boubakeur family come from a Sufi tradition. In his interfaith efforts,  his proposals  and his dialogue with the state, Christians, Jews, and also with the Dalai Lama, he seamlessly blends into the secular state doctrine of France. From the Muslim side he is accused of being, as was his father, a Freemason. Evidence can be only so much that he was already a guest of honor in Masonic lodges, in 2002 in Loge Aequitas of the Grand Orient of France, whose roots are in France and Algeria.
Messa in Latino makes Boubakeur a  suggestion: "Our proposal is: Every church that is to meant to be made ​​to the mosque, should be given to a community of tradition. The fruit will not fail. "
Text: Giuseppe Nardi
Image: Mil / Riposte catholique
Trans: Tancred


Damask Rose said...

"The imam of the Great Mosque of Paris, Dalil Boubakeur said it frankly: "The currently existing mosques are not enough. Their number must reflect the faithful of our religion." And as the construction of new mosques costs and it is not always easy to obtain building permits, why not take advantage of the many vacant Catholic churches standing around in the country of Franceg you?"

This is exactly what Islam does, it will take from others. It's the jizyah mentality - 'you will support us'.

"...representative of a "Euro Islam" or "liberal Islam"." "In his interfaith efforts, his proposals and his dialogue with the state, [religions]..."

No, I don't think he is really liberal. Boubakeur has made it clear that the Catholics must give up their churches to the worship of Islam (Jihad).

Here's why...

"The family derives its descent from Abu Bakr, the first caliph after Muhammad's death."

"Ultimately, "it's the same God", as the local superiors stressed."

Where have I heard this before? And so Islam uses VII and our own ridiculous interfaith dialogue against us. Islam knows what it's doing. It's just that the Catholics aren't understanding Islam on Islamic terms.


"From the Muslim side he is accused of being, as was his father, a Freemason."

Always remember, Ishmael and Israel are half-brothers, but the younger brother is pulling all the strings.

Anonymous said...

Let the Muslims have the churches. The Vatican II Catholic Church, which has caused the collapse of the Roman Catholic Church and Faith, destroying in 50 years what took 1,500 to build worthless. Small loss and good riddance if churches are turned into mosques.
But the Catholic Faith will live on in the small pockets of Catholic tradition, with the SSPX and where the True Mass is celebrated....and it will from those groups that the Catholic Faith will again blossom in France and across Europe. Even be reborn in the Vatican too....hard as that is to believe right now.

Damask Rose said...

The Franciscan monk is besmirching the Faith, the Franciscan habit and the Franciscan monks martyred to Islam.

'Laudato si'. And in the meantime the Christians are martyred in the Middle East, you know, like they do...

Anonymous said...

Charles Martel must be rolling in his grave- Oh, I am sorry, I almost forgot that his remains were dug up by French Revolutionaries and dissolved in lime along with all the other anointed monarchs of France.

The French inspire no good will in me. And if there are any real Frenchmen who are worthy of respect, they are those who fear God and feel the godless wrath and oppression of their countrymen, and perhaps the only reason God had not destroyed their country in a fire... Yet we see that slowly but surely, the Islamic terror that Charles Martel and King Louis fought against will take this France for Islam.

Anonymous said...

Did anyone see Pope's Francis pix during his big summit with mayors this week......another b.s. event from the Vatican II Vatican of Francis.

He looks terrible in the face (eyes, expression etc.), and that in old people is often a sign that they have BIG medical problems about to manifest themselves, and also that they don't have long to go.

Anonymous said...

Excellent points! If I may add, we most certainly don't worship the same God. The great benefit of Christianity is the revelation of the Most Holy Trinity.

Anonymous said...

"you will support us."? Sounds Jewish to me. Hmmmmm

Anonymous said...

Excellent summary. I'm an example, grew up in novus ordo, discovered the TLM and eventually never went back. I have three options for the TLM from the FSSP and "indult" mass, all are valid and licit because the priest is old and was ordained in the correct way and the FSSP uses the correct form and matter. I belong to no parish and give money only when possible to support the priest so that it can't be siphoned off to "community groups". These pockets of faithful are the Church and there are certainly some faithful in the novus ordo as well. Our hope now is the chastisement and the 3 days. If God grants us to live through these events we'll see the Church reborn.

Anonymous said...

I should also add that the closest SSPX chapel is 2 hours away or I would go there but unfortunately they're a bit far away.

Damask Rose said...

"I almost forgot that his remains were dug up by French Revolutionaries and dissolved in lime along with all the other anointed monarchs of France."

Very interesting. Didn't know that. Hatred for their own history even then. No wonder we hardly have history in schools nowadays. We must become rootless...

I think as far as 'Franc-abia' is concerned, this has/is a very long game.

- I wonder what happened to St Joan of Arc's/Charles Martel's sword?

Anonymous said...

They have taken the playbook that works. All Social Justice Warriors use the play book of the Communist Jews. The Communist Jews as always work deviously to enable anti-Catholic anti-Christian anti-Western Destruction and the Right Faction Jews under the radar do the same while above the radar they work to make the mighty West destroy Muslim Culture in the ME to accomplish "Israel's" Reign and drive tens of millions of Muslims to the West to Destroy. This is the Jew-Christian Relationship.

Anonymous said...

"Our hope now is the chastisement and the 3 days."

That statement is scientific proof your spiritual life isn't making any progress. I'm not saying that to be rude; I used to think the same way as you and you're going down a dangerous path. Our only hope is in God's Mercy and the conversion of sinners.

If you hope for a chastisement you will end up like the prophet Jonah, you will end up suicidal when God withholds His judgement. And if the chastisement does happen? Then be afraid, for Jesus warned us that we may not survive and we're not to look forward to such things. If you haven't risen above the 2nd grade of prayer, and you hope for chastisement, those demons unleashed in the three days of darkness may cause you to reject Christ and lose your soul.

Without charity you are nothing. Though you pray the rosary everyday and attend the TLM, without charity you're a vessel of destruction made for God's wrath. Get the idea of chastisement out of your head. Pray to God that He will withhold his wrath and instead send us a saint like Vincent Ferrer or Charles Borromeo to convert the heathens and the modernists.

Anonymous said...

That most definitely is the long range plan. All our so-called 'leaders', both secular and religious, are working 24/7 to facilitate our national, cultural and physical extinction.

Lynda said...

As per St Francis's prophesy about his own Order. Blessed Michael, the Archangel, defend us in battle.

Anonymous said...

And don't conflate Russia, Russian Christian Slavs with Jewish Communists. Whilst fighting the Communist Beast through the Long Cold War we never heard The Jewish Communists... who killed the Russian Czar and have enslaved Russia

Anonymous said...

The Watchtower Society, the Novus Ordo and materialist ideologies (secular-humanism, Marxism, etc.) operate in the same way.

In order to brainwash you into their cult, they "unroot" you. This is actually a method used in mind control. Once they've separated you from your past, your history, your family and your traditions; they insert their own religion/ideology in the void. They make you ignorant or hateful of your past culture and identity. It doesn't matter if it's the Cultural Revolution of Mao or "everything is pagan" accusations of Charles Taze Russell or the devşirme (blood tax) of the Ottoman Empire; it's all the same Satanic/demonic spirit that pervades throughout the ages. Tradition is a light which exposes Satan; the vile serpent who caused the fall of Adam, the father of mankind.

Notice how the one and only true Faith, Catholicism, never unrooted cultural practices that weren't inherently sinful and even baptized them. Slavs still have their Easter baskets and egg painting, only now it represents Jesus' Resurrection instead of fertility; Indian "St. Thomas Christians" still have candle holders unique to their culture, Chinese Catholics have their incense sticks and so forth. Christ came to save both Jew and gentile. Many ancient gentile religions before Christ prophesied of His arrival and those prophecies were used to convert them (e.g. Mayan calender predicted Our Lady of Guadalupe, the Platonic philosophers saw Jesus as the Logos made man, etc). Even in the Old Testament, the Jews assimilated Egyptian cherubim thrones (Ark of the Covenant), priestly garments and incense from Mesopotamian and Egyptian culture/traditions which predated Abraham.

If you kill tradition, you kill the family; if you kill the family, you kill society. "Thou shalt honour thy mother and thy father" is the first commandment concerning our conduct towards other people (the first three concern our conduct towards God).

Anonymous said...

For those of you wondering about the prophesies of Christ in gentile religions:

Anonymous said...

Ha!, that was good for a nice chortle out loud, thank you! Your above statement is theological proof that you have even learned the first few pages of the Catechism. God is merciful and God is JUST. Why is it that sing songey, happy clappy novus ordoites always forget to mention God's justice when you prattle on endlessly about His Mercy?

Damask Rose said...

Interesting comment there, Anonymous @ 3:14pm.

"Thou shalt honour thy mother and thy father" is the first commandment concerning our conduct towards other people (the first three concern our conduct towards God)."

Never thought of it that way, thanks.

Damask Rose said...

Dead straight, Anonymi.

Anonymous said...

Um, I live in a pagan society where everyone praises traditions and their ancestors. The place is a hellhole because they follow the wrong traditions and are not brave enough to admit that their ancestors were wrong. A culture is not just how you worship, it is what you believe and practice in society. Think that pagan societies were/are noble because of cultural traditions? You have no idea what a blessing Christianity was for the Romans. I read on the history of Rome and I see parallels with the callousness to human beings here.

susan said...

Anon, seriously, give it a rest. You've been saying this for 2+ years now, and he just keeps picking up a stronger head of steam.