Saturday, November 1, 2014

Francis Calls Old Catholics to Reconciliation



Pope Francis wants that Catholics and Old Catholics should approach each other more. However, the differences in terms of the Magisterium and ethical issues are difficult to overcome.

Vatican City (kath.net/KNA) Pope Francis wants that Catholics and Old Catholics should approach each other more. At a meeting with bishops of the Union of Utrecht on Thursday in the Vatican, he admitted, the differences in the Magisterium and ethical issues are difficult to overcome. In the past, both sides had committed "serious sins and human failings." They require mutual forgiveness and a way of reconciliation, "an encounter towards friendship, from friendship towards brotherhood, from brotherhood towards unity."

Catholic and Old Catholic Church could, according to the Pope's words, work together to overcome the spiritual crisis that has befallen the individual and European societies. But they would have to set an example together a credible witness of the Gospel.

The delegation of the Old Catholic Churches of the Union of Utrecht is led by the Bishop of Utrecht Joris Vercammen. He described the theological differences between Catholics and Old Catholics in his address to the Pope, according to the transcript as "intra-Catholic problems". The Old Catholic Church recognizes the unique position of the Pope, "in the whole Church". But they believe that the Bishop of Rome would have had an even higher moral authority, had he included in the Synodality the bishops, those who represent their respective local Catholic churches, said Vercammen. The papacy yet plays an "extremely important" role in ecumenical development.

The Old Catholic churches were established with the exception of the long-standing Old Catholic Church of the Netherlands, after the First Vatican Council (1870). The main points of conflict were the dogmas of papal infallibility and the primacy of his jurisdiction over all bishops. (C) 2014 Catholic News Agency KNA GmbH. All rights reserved.

Link to Katholisches...

Trans: Tancred



AMGD

19 comments:

  1. but nooooooo brotherhood and understanding with the SSPX.....nooooooooo.

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  2. Married clergy not a problem.

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    1. if only. "old catholics" ordain women, theyre basicaly become the episcopalians of continental europe. and its also interesting to note i doubt there are many original old catholics, that is people born into it, left. i bet you these "bishops" barely have congregations, and the ones they have are just angry liberals who left communion with rome over divorce or womens ordination. i have no idea why the ecumenists at rome would invite these vagantes.

      the ones who are "legit" - emphasis on quotes - old catholics, found only in america (polish national catholic church) and an unrelated group in poland that makes up a faction of a sect called mariavites, want nothing to do with Rome.

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    2. Married clergy is always a problem, and people who espouse it for the Latin Rite probably have a seriously damaged sensus catholicus.

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    3. Anonymous, yes. It has happened. A break-away branch of the Anglican Church, with women priests, has joined Old Catholics in the Union of Utrecht.
      Likewise, The Aglipayan Church [Philippine Independent "Catholic" Church]. a break-away from the Spanish hierarchy of that country in the late 19th century - and one infiltrated by freemasonry - has joined Old Catholics in the Union of Utrecht. Aglipayan priests are married.
      While we pray for reconciliation of these vagantes, it should be on our [Roman Catholic] terms, not theirs.

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  3. Is there that many members of the Old Catholic Church? If the actual Church is decreasing in members, then surely schismatic sects can't be packing them in the pews.

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    1. The Union of Utrecht and other pretended Old-Catholic are decreasing in members and so they are deperate. Not even the Lutherans are interrested in them./Gunnar

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  4. Old Catholics [Union of Utrecht] don't believe in the infallibility of the Pope nor in the Immaculate Conception of Mary. They are protestants, not Catholics. They have the nerve to talk about "inter-Catholic" problems and "synodality of bishops" with the Pope?

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    1. From what you just described they have much in common with the pope.

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    2. CJ, sadly, they do seem so.

      I have this young American friend who has just been "ordained" a priest of the Old Catholic church. He said God was calling him to the priesthood but thought entering a "Novus Ordo" seminary would endanger his faith, and would be "too much work." So all he did was go to an Old Catholic bishop and got ordained right there and then.

      When I told him Old Catholic is not in communion with Rome, he laughed and said Pope Francis surely would fit right in with his group.

      That was a few months ago, and now...this is happening, it's scary.

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  5. Remember - prosyletism is "solemn nonsense", not the mission of the Church. This is all part of the doctrine-less pan-church that will operate as another tool of the global temporal powers.

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  6. Maybe Pope Francis should approach the Catholic Church and get himself reconciled

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    1. Indeed. That would require humility on his part so forget about it.

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  7. Once upon a time there was a church roman, catholic,apostolic, now there is a church quango, ong, bizzfriendly and happy to welcome pigs, men and any other animal.....Orwell would be excited about it; in Utrecht churches and pews and confessionals are on Ebay, c'mon, let's buy them, it's a real bargain.MK.

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  8. More leverage to get the QUEERS and Pedophiles into 'full communion' w/black mass of satan:
    The Old Catholic churches tend to maintain a more liberal theological anthropology than the Roman Catholic Church. Thus, many churches of the union ordain women to the priesthood. Angela Berlis was the first woman priest in the union, ordained in 1996. In addition, the churches of the Netherlands, Germany, Austria and Switzerland offer the blessing of same-sex unions. The individual's primacy of conscience in ethical matters is stressed. Private confession is not mandatory, though it is practiced, and decisions regarding the use of artificial contraception are individual and discretionary.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_of_Utrecht_(Old_Catholic)

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  9. These hertics are old hertics and are NOT catholic.

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  10. Just a side note: Old Catholicism operates on terrirotial principle, it is not centralized like Catholicism. Thus, each country has its own autocephalous Old Catholic Church headed by a prime bishop. A lot of Utrecht Union members (i.e. national Old Catholic Churches, such as Netherlands, Germany, Switzerland, Austria etc.) changed their theology, started ordaining women into priesthood and episcopacy, started ordaning openly homosexual men and started openly supporting homosexual relationships. But not all! There were those urging the rest not to do it, yet to no avail. Example is Slovak Old Catholic Church, Portuguese Old Catholic Church or Italian Old Catholic Church. As Utrecht would not listen and lay in its heresies, they had to leave Utrecht Union and either remain alone and on their own or entered the Scranton Union (the Polish National Catholic Church is there, and the new top hit: the Nordic Catholic Church --similar thing but in Scandinavian countries). These are the good guys, people, keep the faith of the Roman Church as conserved in 1868 (right before the FIrst Vatican Council). Or, we are "separeted brethrn", but we have valid apostolic succession, valid priests and bishops, valid sacraments, we recognize the Pope (the current one, we are not sede-), we just cannot accept infallibility and immaculate conception in the wording accepted by I.VC. And we serve Trident, as we were "separated bethren" at the time of II.VC. But please do read Papal Declaration Dominus Jesus of August 2000 (issued by John Paul II and then confirmed by Benedict XVI). You will see the Holy Father has our priesthood, bishops and sacraments as valid but illicit. That of course means those that did not fall from Christianity by breaking apostolic succession via ordaining women into priesthood and episcopacy.

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