Immemorial Mass of All Ages Celebrated in St. Peter's Basilica by SSPX
Edit: as reported by Rorate, permission was granted, but this has been going on for some time, with Society Priests saying Mass at St. Peter's.
The Mass in the Vatican Basilica was celebrated by Fr. de Sivry on August 9, 2014, during this special centennial year of thedies natalis of Saint Pius X.
Thank you, your Eminence, Raymond Cardinal Burke. This could never have happened without you. Thanks to you, our long, forty year exile is over. Let Jorge stay in his hotel and show everyone how humble that he is. Bless the Holy Church TRIUMPHANT !
Please see my post below with the corresponding link to the Vatican, that the SSPX "... do not legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church. " This has not been changed by a Pope to date. LETTER of HIS HOLINESS POPE BENEDICT XVI to the BISHOPS of the CATHOLIC CHURCH CONCERNING the REMISSION of EXCOMMUNICATION of the FOUR BISHOPS CONSECRATED by ARCHBISHOP LEFEBVRE".
If SSPX priests do not legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church, then why is this priest from the SSPX offering the Holy Mass and exercising his ministry, in St. Peter's Basilica? And he was given permission by people in the Vatican to do so. I am sure that the janitor in St. Peter's was not the one to give the permission. Promoting a particular cause does not necessarily mean that you shout it from the rooftops. It can be as subtle as a simple nod of the head. I have not confused the SSPX with the FSSP. I am well aware of the differences.
Inevitably, someone who frequents this blog would be outraged.
"This is fake! That's not a traditional chasuble! And why are the altar boys not wearing cassocks, you might as well have altar girls! That's the Vatican2 Cult for you!"
Cardinal Brandmuller celebrated a tridentine mass in St Peters on May 15th 2011. http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100088147/cardinal-says-tridentine-mass-at-st-peters-despite-robert-mickenss-doubts-about-legality-of-popes-ruling/
Also in Nov 2011 3 other tridentine masses were celebrated in St Peters.
I have never seen purely "white" vestements. The cassock-surplus may be white but the alb even if white generally contains some ornamentation. You do know that all these rituals involving vestements are derived from the temple worship traditions handed on from the Roman Empire pagan cults.
What's even worse is the Old Testament Jewish religion. God demanded the Jews to burn incense to Him even though burning incense originated from pagan Babylon and Egypt. The Jews even adopted the pagan Babylonian lunar calender where months are named after pagan gods. The Ark of the Covenant has two golden idols of cherubim (angels) on them, and the Jewish priests used to bow down before it. In fact the Ark of the Covenant is just a play on the cherubim thrones of the pagan Egyptians. The Jewish priestly wardrobe was also inspired by the pagan Egyptian priesthood. The Jews made a bronze idol of a serpent on a pole which healed their illnesses. Solomon's Temple had golden idols of lions.
Oh boy, it looks like the whole entire Bible is a rip off of ancient pagan religions in monotheistic form. I mean, yeah, there are totally logical reasons to why Old Testament Jews were told by God to adopt pagan practices (e.g. burning incense is a symbol for prayer) and yeah, humans communicate by symbols; physical symbols such as colours, clothes, and nature symbols are no different from symbolic forms of communication like language, but... who cares! Ignorant sensationalism and propaganda originally created by Freemasons and Theosophists is what sells books! And yeah, Alexander Hislop was discredited as as a historian after he released his anti-Catholic book because he falsified data and practiced convenient commission, but who cares! Truth is boring! It's better to believe lies which support our beliefs, why would we hurt our pride by admitting we were wrong? Pride leads to heaven, not humility... oh wait, maybe it was the other way around... ah who cares, it's best just to read Chick tracts and not think about it. Honest historical research is what converts people to Catholicism, and we wouldn't want that now, would we?
SSPX - per Pope Benedict in March, 2009, after the excommunication of the SSPX Bishops was lifted - " In order to make this clear once again: until the doctrinal questions are clarified, the Society has no canonical status in the Church, and its ministers – even though they have been freed of the ecclesiastical penalty – do not legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church. " http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/letters/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_let_20090310_remissione-scomunica_en.html
Here is a list of US locations of the FSSP for the Extraordinary Form (Latin / Tridentine) of the Mass. http://fssp.com/press/locations/
If you want a EF (Latin) Mass in or near your Parish contact your Parish Priest, or your Diocese Bishop. The FSSP will train Diocese Priests for the EF Liturgy.
As nice as they are, they're always under threat by the modernists who infest chanceries in the West.
If it's ok to attend a "Mass" that is illicit but valid in "good standing" with the Archdiocese, it should be permissible to participate in a Mass that is actually valid, where the celebrant isn't a raving heretic as is so often the case.
The FSSP is used as a tool by modernist bishops to divide and conquer traditionalist communities in their dioceses. The worst case I remember was in Archdiocese of Toronto, a city with 2 diocesan TLMs (since 1970) and the SSPX. The FSSP only lasted about a year since the Oratorians and SSPX have strong communities. In general super-liberal bishops will allow the FSSP in their diocese if they see that the SSPX is growing (they breed like rabbits, Catholic rabbits).
Another problem is that the FSSP is neutered. They're not allowed to talk about certain important topics in the traditionalist cause. They never name names when a heresy or error arises in the hierarchy. The YouCat is filled with errors and plays down mortal sins like masturbation but a priest over at Audio Sancto called it "a modern youth catechism" and never named it by name because it was written by Cardinal Schonborn. They ignore problems with Benedict XVI (Introduction to Christianity being banned for heresy by Cardinal Wyszyński, his praise of modernist theologians, quoting Teilhard de Chardin, Assisi meetings, allowing Communion in the hand in Poland while JPII didn't, giving audience to Hans Kung even though JPII didnt, etc).
With the SSPX you have stability and a "Si Si No No" approach to doctrine. A spade is a spade. The FSSP beats around the bush because they can get into trouble, this isn't good for the lay people who don't have time for Catholic news websites and aren't "in the know". Traditionalism isn't just about the Mass, it's about doctrine. In these times we need clarity and simplicity, not esoteric language that blurs the fact that you're criticizing Francis' on his recent speech or some official Church catechism like YouCat.
FSSP exists because Rome allowed former SSPX back to Rome.
SSPX in establishing its own parallel hierarchy, is by definition schismatic and is barely Catholic no matter who traditional their liturgy is. If you wanted a liturgy, you can easily find Latin Mass in Lutheran and Old Catholic churches. Speaking of which, since the Old Catholics refused Papal Infallibility, those who refuse the validity of Vatican 2 can be neatly categorized with SSPX and the sedevacantist SSPV who are all schismatics because they refuse the authority of the Pope and therefore commit heresy in that respect.
Ultimately, you're all just a bunch of Latin-Rite Orthodox who can't accept the Orthodox because the Orthodox are too foreign and the prestige of being "Roman" is too much to give up. You are all cut off from Peter, and no matter how much you sling mud at his successor, you're not getting back inside unless you accept the documents of the Second Vatican council.
Not quite accurate. Some of those former SSPXers were tossed out of,the SSPX for disciplinary problems. They were still Catholic though and did NOT need permission by. Rome to be so. However...that did make them the perfect tools of the Modernists and their pride made them swallow Rome's bait hook, line and sinker.
SSPX offers TLM in St. Peter's Basilica, and yet we have this from the Diocese of Pittsburgh:
"Recently, the Diocese of Pittsburgh was informed that the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX) has purchased the former St. James church building in the West End of Pittsburgh. So that no confusion exists regarding the canonical status of the Society of St. Pius X and the former St. James church building, the following notification is issued by the Department for Canonical Services of the Diocese of Pittsburgh.
"The purpose of this notification is to assist Catholics in understanding that the Society of St. Pius X is not in full communion with the Catholic Church. The society does not have canonical status in the church. Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI stated: “As long as the society does not have a canonical status in the church, its ministers do not exercise legitimate ministries in the church.”
"The Society of St. Pius X is separated from the Catholic Church. The former St. James church building in the West End is not a Roman Catholic church. The Roman Catholic faithful are to know that free and willful participation with this group, including reception of the sacraments, implies an act of separation from the Roman Catholic Church. This is a serious matter that no Catholic should take lightly."
The SSPX may not have "canonical status" in Pittsburgh, but apparently their status is quite "canonical" enough for the Vatican. Don't have a fit all you modernists. The SSPX is being regularized, whether you like it or not.
The SSPX has never been anything but Lawfully and Canonically Catholic. Phony "saints" with their phony "excommunications" do not change that FACT. There is no need for a so called regularization because Faithful Catholics fill their chapels and seminaries. When Francis finishes what Paul VI started and the tether is finally cut...the phony church of Vaticon II will drift off into the sea and when they look back they will see the Rock of the. Church with the SSPX alone still anchored to it.
Cry us a river, you Protecatholics. Convert or die the the death of heretics.
The unchanging Deposit of Faith? If that includes certain absolute dogmas then you might be in trouble with this pontificate which seems to indicate one should not cling to them.
But hey is it not a deposit of the faith to profess filial obedience to the papal magisterium?
I understand the popes have the power of declaring what is a sin and what is not . This is called the power of the keys when Christ gave St Peter the power of binding and loosening. Deliberately eating meat on a Friday used to be a mortal sin. That was changed. Now it is not a mortal sin for catholics to eat meat on Fridays.
Just what is the deposit of the faith?
I expect there are different interpretations.
Do items like the churches teaching prohibiting artificial contraception, homosexual acts, the a ban on certain divorced people receiving communion constitute the deposit of the faith?
In other words if the catholic church were to reverse its teaching and declare these actions not to be mortally sinful, would that then infringe on the Deposit of the Faith?
Did he just approach the altar with his pilgrimage group and start saying an "impromptu" Mass? That's awesome. ☺
ReplyDeleteActually, my SSPX friend told me the Vatican has given the SSPX priests permission to say Mass in St. Peters since the 2000 Chartres pilgrimage.
DeleteThank you, your Eminence, Raymond Cardinal Burke. This could never have happened without you.
ReplyDeleteThanks to you, our long, forty year exile is over.
Let Jorge stay in his hotel and show everyone how humble that he is.
Bless the Holy Church TRIUMPHANT !
Cardinal Burke has not promoted the SSPX.
DeletePlease see my post below with the corresponding link to the Vatican, that the SSPX "... do not legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church. "
This has not been changed by a Pope to date.
LETTER of HIS HOLINESS POPE BENEDICT XVI to the BISHOPS of the CATHOLIC CHURCH
CONCERNING the REMISSION of EXCOMMUNICATION
of the FOUR BISHOPS CONSECRATED by ARCHBISHOP LEFEBVRE".
The FSSP should not be confused with the SSPX.
If SSPX priests do not legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church, then why is this priest from the SSPX offering the Holy Mass and exercising his ministry, in St. Peter's Basilica? And he was given permission by people in the Vatican to do so.
DeleteI am sure that the janitor in St. Peter's was not the one to give the permission.
Promoting a particular cause does not necessarily mean that you shout it from the rooftops. It can be as subtle as a simple nod of the head.
I have not confused the SSPX with the FSSP. I am well aware of the differences.
Sure Card. Burke has. He was one of the few Novus Ordo clergymen to urge the faithful to pray for the SSPX and their "regularization."
DeleteInevitably, someone who frequents this blog would be outraged.
ReplyDelete"This is fake! That's not a traditional chasuble! And why are the altar boys not wearing cassocks, you might as well have altar girls! That's the Vatican2 Cult for you!"
Thank goodness that all the people with opinions aren't as free with their thoughts.
DeleteThe mass was celebrated at a side chapel in the main basilica of St.Peters.
ReplyDeleteI don't know...looks crypto-Jesus Christ, to me! ;-)
ReplyDeletehahaha, good one.
DeleteCardinal Brandmuller celebrated a tridentine mass in St Peters on May 15th 2011.
ReplyDeletehttp://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100088147/cardinal-says-tridentine-mass-at-st-peters-despite-robert-mickenss-doubts-about-legality-of-popes-ruling/
Also in Nov 2011 3 other tridentine masses were celebrated in St Peters.
http://catholicheritage.blogspot.ie/2011/11/fiuv-2011-three-traditional-masses-in.html
Tridentine masses have always been celebrated at St.Peters
Can anyone tell me why he is wearing red vestments for a Mass in honour of Our Lady. I thought it should have been white?
ReplyDeleteI have never seen purely "white" vestements.
DeleteThe cassock-surplus may be white but the alb even if white generally contains some ornamentation.
You do know that all these rituals involving vestements are derived from the temple worship traditions handed on from the
Roman Empire pagan cults.
O_o
Delete@Sandy was that why the Mass was said? If it is the case, I expect the impromptu nature of the Liturgy might have had something to do with it.
DeleteAnonymous protestant,
DeleteWhat's even worse is the Old Testament Jewish religion. God demanded the Jews to burn incense to Him even though burning incense originated from pagan Babylon and Egypt. The Jews even adopted the pagan Babylonian lunar calender where months are named after pagan gods. The Ark of the Covenant has two golden idols of cherubim (angels) on them, and the Jewish priests used to bow down before it. In fact the Ark of the Covenant is just a play on the cherubim thrones of the pagan Egyptians. The Jewish priestly wardrobe was also inspired by the pagan Egyptian priesthood. The Jews made a bronze idol of a serpent on a pole which healed their illnesses. Solomon's Temple had golden idols of lions.
Oh boy, it looks like the whole entire Bible is a rip off of ancient pagan religions in monotheistic form. I mean, yeah, there are totally logical reasons to why Old Testament Jews were told by God to adopt pagan practices (e.g. burning incense is a symbol for prayer) and yeah, humans communicate by symbols; physical symbols such as colours, clothes, and nature symbols are no different from symbolic forms of communication like language, but... who cares! Ignorant sensationalism and propaganda originally created by Freemasons and Theosophists is what sells books! And yeah, Alexander Hislop was discredited as as a historian after he released his anti-Catholic book because he falsified data and practiced convenient commission, but who cares! Truth is boring! It's better to believe lies which support our beliefs, why would we hurt our pride by admitting we were wrong? Pride leads to heaven, not humility... oh wait, maybe it was the other way around... ah who cares, it's best just to read Chick tracts and not think about it. Honest historical research is what converts people to Catholicism, and we wouldn't want that now, would we?
Very nice, thanks!
DeleteSSPX - per Pope Benedict in March, 2009, after the excommunication of the SSPX Bishops was lifted -
ReplyDelete" In order to make this clear once again: until the doctrinal questions are clarified, the Society has no canonical status in the Church, and its ministers – even though they have been freed of the ecclesiastical penalty – do not legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church. "
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/letters/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_let_20090310_remissione-scomunica_en.html
Here is a list of US locations of the FSSP for the Extraordinary Form (Latin / Tridentine) of the Mass.
http://fssp.com/press/locations/
If you want a EF (Latin) Mass in or near your Parish contact your Parish Priest, or your Diocese Bishop.
The FSSP will train Diocese Priests for the EF Liturgy.
As nice as they are, they're always under threat by the modernists who infest chanceries in the West.
DeleteIf it's ok to attend a "Mass" that is illicit but valid in "good standing" with the Archdiocese, it should be permissible to participate in a Mass that is actually valid, where the celebrant isn't a raving heretic as is so often the case.
The FSSP is used as a tool by modernist bishops to divide and conquer traditionalist communities in their dioceses. The worst case I remember was in Archdiocese of Toronto, a city with 2 diocesan TLMs (since 1970) and the SSPX. The FSSP only lasted about a year since the Oratorians and SSPX have strong communities. In general super-liberal bishops will allow the FSSP in their diocese if they see that the SSPX is growing (they breed like rabbits, Catholic rabbits).
DeleteAnother problem is that the FSSP is neutered. They're not allowed to talk about certain important topics in the traditionalist cause. They never name names when a heresy or error arises in the hierarchy. The YouCat is filled with errors and plays down mortal sins like masturbation but a priest over at Audio Sancto called it "a modern youth catechism" and never named it by name because it was written by Cardinal Schonborn. They ignore problems with Benedict XVI (Introduction to Christianity being banned for heresy by Cardinal Wyszyński, his praise of modernist theologians, quoting Teilhard de Chardin, Assisi meetings, allowing Communion in the hand in Poland while JPII didn't, giving audience to Hans Kung even though JPII didnt, etc).
With the SSPX you have stability and a "Si Si No No" approach to doctrine. A spade is a spade. The FSSP beats around the bush because they can get into trouble, this isn't good for the lay people who don't have time for Catholic news websites and aren't "in the know". Traditionalism isn't just about the Mass, it's about doctrine. In these times we need clarity and simplicity, not esoteric language that blurs the fact that you're criticizing Francis' on his recent speech or some official Church catechism like YouCat.
FSSP exists because Rome allowed former SSPX back to Rome.
DeleteSSPX in establishing its own parallel hierarchy, is by definition schismatic and is barely Catholic no matter who traditional their liturgy is. If you wanted a liturgy, you can easily find Latin Mass in Lutheran and Old Catholic churches. Speaking of which, since the Old Catholics refused Papal Infallibility, those who refuse the validity of Vatican 2 can be neatly categorized with SSPX and the sedevacantist SSPV who are all schismatics because they refuse the authority of the Pope and therefore commit heresy in that respect.
Ultimately, you're all just a bunch of Latin-Rite Orthodox who can't accept the Orthodox because the Orthodox are too foreign and the prestige of being "Roman" is too much to give up. You are all cut off from Peter, and no matter how much you sling mud at his successor, you're not getting back inside unless you accept the documents of the Second Vatican council.
Not quite accurate. Some of those former SSPXers were tossed out of,the SSPX for disciplinary problems. They were still Catholic though and did NOT need permission by. Rome to be so. However...that did make them the perfect tools of the Modernists and their pride made them swallow Rome's bait hook, line and sinker.
DeleteSSPX offers TLM in St. Peter's Basilica, and yet we have this from the Diocese of Pittsburgh:
ReplyDelete"Recently, the Diocese of Pittsburgh was informed that the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX) has purchased the former St. James church building in the West End of Pittsburgh. So that no confusion exists regarding the canonical status of the Society of St. Pius X and the former St. James church building, the following notification is issued by the Department for Canonical Services of the Diocese of Pittsburgh.
"The purpose of this notification is to assist Catholics in understanding that the Society of St. Pius X is not in full communion with the Catholic Church. The society does not have canonical status in the church. Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI stated: “As long as the society does not have a canonical status in the church, its ministers do not exercise legitimate ministries in the church.”
"The Society of St. Pius X is separated from the Catholic Church. The former St. James church building in the West End is not a Roman Catholic church. The Roman Catholic faithful are to know that free and willful participation with this group, including reception of the sacraments, implies an act of separation from the Roman Catholic Church. This is a serious matter that no Catholic should take lightly."
Source: http://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/fetzen-fliegen/item/963-re-the-sspx-schism-who-s-on-first-and-what-s-on-second-i-think
The SSPX may not have "canonical status" in Pittsburgh, but apparently their status is quite "canonical" enough for the Vatican. Don't have a fit all you modernists. The SSPX is being regularized, whether you like it or not.
DeleteThe SSPX has never been anything but Lawfully and Canonically Catholic. Phony "saints" with their phony "excommunications" do not change that FACT. There is no need for a so called regularization because Faithful Catholics fill their chapels and seminaries. When Francis finishes what Paul VI started and the tether is finally cut...the phony church of Vaticon II will drift off into the sea and when they look back they will see the Rock of the. Church with the SSPX alone still anchored to it.
DeleteCry us a river, you Protecatholics. Convert or die the the death of heretics.
So SSPX offer a Mass in St Peters. Well why shouldn’t they? They are Catholics after all.
ReplyDeleteThere doctrinal position is pre-Vatican II. Well so is mine and, incidentally, Benedict XVI’s.
Which is more than can be said for a great many “Catholics” these days, bishops, priests and laity who seem to feel quite happy in St Peters.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteOne is not "cut off from Peter" if one adheres to the unchanging Deposit of Faith.
ReplyDeleteThe unchanging Deposit of Faith?
DeleteIf that includes certain absolute dogmas then you might be in trouble with this pontificate which seems to indicate one should not cling to them.
But hey is it not a deposit of the faith to profess filial obedience to the papal magisterium?
Bit of a puzzle then ....eh?
Filial obedience in all that does not conflict with the unchanging and unchangeable Deposit of Faith.
DeleteI understand the popes have the power of declaring what is a sin and what is not .
ReplyDeleteThis is called the power of the keys when Christ gave St Peter the power of binding and loosening.
Deliberately eating meat on a Friday used to be a mortal sin.
That was changed.
Now it is not a mortal sin for catholics to eat meat on Fridays.
Just what is the deposit of the faith?
I expect there are different interpretations.
Do items like the churches teaching prohibiting artificial contraception, homosexual acts, the a ban on certain divorced people receiving communion constitute the deposit of the faith?
In other words if the catholic church were to reverse its teaching and declare these actions not to be mortally sinful, would that then infringe on the Deposit of the Faith?
Does that mean that the Popes will suspend the law of non-contradiction too, and declare buggery normal?
Deletevideo does not exist...???
ReplyDelete