tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4404498638452030181.post1975503064368191916..comments2024-03-29T00:16:25.097-07:00Comments on The Eponymous Flower: German Federal Court tries to protect outdated Church-tax-systemTancredhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16015531337154301560noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4404498638452030181.post-90943583294568453902012-10-09T09:02:21.875-07:002012-10-09T09:02:21.875-07:00Sure, it employs a different, more passive method ...Sure, it employs a different, more passive method of getting tax dollars to the Catholic Church. Arguably, the US method is more unjust because the money isn't just taken from people who declare themselves Catholics and are registered in a parish as such, it's taken from everyone (a shrinking number of people to be sure) who pays taxes.<br /><br />And if you don't think the government have some influence over what the Church does, look at the HHS Mandate and the efforts, both in Europe and the United States, to force Catholic adoption agencies to place children with homosexuals.<br /><br />Of course, in Germany, the Kulturkampf (German Governments Efforts to control and neutralize the Catholic Church) is ongoing and both the Bishops which are generally approved of by the government, and the Judiciary, are fighting like mad to keep the Church-tax system afloat.Tancredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16015531337154301560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4404498638452030181.post-22747957188454753692012-10-09T07:58:43.335-07:002012-10-09T07:58:43.335-07:00It may "give money" to charities associa...It may "give money" to charities associated with the Church which perform services the governement wants or encourages (hence the government's ability to influence how those services are performed), but it does not give money to the Church in the same way that the German government appears to. It is just a different system - the US government is not collecting money on behalf of the Church as the German system apparently does. I am not saying one system creates less influence on the Church than the other, I am just pointing out the differences.<br /><br />In fact, the German system may actually create less government influence. If I understand correctly, the tax collected by the German government goes to the Church through its diocese (i.e., the Bishop), not directly to a charity or school supported by the diocese. The diocese can then distribute the tax money, not so in the US. In the German arrangement, an argument can be made that the money is not properly government money at all, but the Church's money, which the government collects. If I hire a bill collection agency to collect money from my customers (paying the collection agency a percentage), they are collecting money owed to me, not them. Thus, it is in a sense, more my money, not the agency's.<br /><br />In the US system, the Church affiliated agencies (Cath Char, Cath University, etc.) in a sense have to compete with other organizations for what is more properly government money. It therefore would have to comply more with the government's requirements in order to obtain the money.<br /><br />My main point is that the phrase "giving money" implies that the government is not receiving a "quid pro quo" in the US - as if it is simply a gift for no reason. This is not true - government grants are giving with a specific intent to receive something of value back - be it services to the needy (i.e, a soup kitchen, homeless shelter, etc.) or other service (e.g., education) that the government wants performed that it would otherwise do itself. In the German system, there does not appear to be any particular "return" the government is seeking - it is essentially just a collection agency for the Church. In fact, it is the government that is providing the service to the Church. In the US, it is the other way around (the US Government is the "client," and hence has the similar influence a client would have over the service provider). In other words, the US Government doesn't "give" money to the Church; it more properly "spends" money on services provided by Church entities. In fact, the US government doesn't "give" money to anyone - it "spends" it. Whether that spending is wise or justified is a different question.c mattnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4404498638452030181.post-72304458168542483542012-10-08T12:56:05.588-07:002012-10-08T12:56:05.588-07:00Catholic Charities receives most of its funding fr...Catholic Charities receives most of its funding from Federal grants it doesn't have to repay. On the contrary, it's quit accurate to say that the United States government "gives money" to the American Church, which goes a long way for a few of us to explain why so many Bishops are so soft on defending the prerogatives of the Church, to say nothing of Her timeless truths.Tancredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16015531337154301560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4404498638452030181.post-33257501990860122392012-10-08T12:45:37.104-07:002012-10-08T12:45:37.104-07:00The Catholic Church in the United States, like the...<i>The Catholic Church in the United States, like the German Church, also receives substantial Government largesse in the form of Student Loans and Grants.</i><br /><br />I don't know how it works in Germany, but in the US, it is not quite accurate to say the US Gov't "gives" money to the Church. For example, with the loans above, the loan is given to the individual student who can then use it to pay tuition at a Catholic, public, or other private school. It is the student giving the money to the school, not the government giving money to the Church, and which the student later has to pay back to the Federales. Even if you want to call that "giving" money to the "Church," the "Church" is providng a service in exchange - an education. Same with Catholic Charities and what not - the money is in reality being paid in exchange for some service (adoption/orphanage, social welfare services, etc.) that the government would otherwise have to do itself. When the Government pays McDonnell Douglas or Halliburton to supply military weapons or construction services, are you saying the Government "gives" McD and Hall money?c mattnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4404498638452030181.post-16436845461216085972012-10-07T11:05:47.789-07:002012-10-07T11:05:47.789-07:00I can't imagine a surer way to secure a seat i...I can't imagine a surer way to secure a seat in Hell than to refuse a baptism, marriage or burial to Catholic Faithful without Just cause. That was just with a capital J.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com